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Vitamin D, COVID - Campbell and Davis (UK with transcript) - Jan 18, 2021

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Machine-generated Transcript
Many errors due to talking over each other and British accents
Human-aided transcripts are much better, but take 2 weeks for a British accent

0:00:03.4 Campbell: Well, today we are talking to Mr. Davis, David Davis, MP, well-known politician in the UK, if you're watching in the US, you might not have heard of it, but he's been involved in the scientific related matters for some time, I think you've got a background in... Signed, haven't you?

0:00:19.0 Davis: Yeah, my first degree was a joint on a molecular science and computer science, molecular science in those days was in essence, essentially from chemistry through biochemistry to in some areas of physics as well, and computer sciences, what it is. So that was the original background, most of my business career, he spent using science in the form of chemistry or biology, or physics or engineering or mathematics, one way or another, in pretty much every job I did, and it was a close science minister as well, at one point in the past. So I've had quite a lot of impact on science, and I'm one of these strange unraced... I read Scientific American. I read while I read the MIT Technology, and this is sort of a... If you're like, I'm

0:01:10.2 Campbell: The same as what I used to get to sleep at night. I don't know if I read them, I say, Think about it.

0:01:18.6 Davis: So that's the background. That's when my interest goes.

Davis background

0:01:22.5 Campbell: I'm delighted already, we've got a politician who is also a scientist, so somewhat rare breed, I'm afraid. But we can talk about that after. But the main thing to get to the bottom line, what we like to do is give the bottom line first, the bottom line is that you have been very involved in promoting Vitamin D as an immuno modulator with specific reference to this current emergency situation, the world is in a... What was it first provoked of interest in vitamin D and that you thought it might be efficacious? Well, like everybody or most people, I personally am not bit of India School, in my case, O-levels. If that tells you how old I am, I remember them well.

0:02:02.0 Davis: Not some. Anyway, at that point, it was all about, vitamin D was involved in the uptake of calcium, so the shortage of it would lead to a variety of bone diseases from rituals through osteoporosis, that was the general understanding, I never body for it for a long, long time. I thought it was just about... But nothing else bones a muscle to some extent, then quite late on, actually, in fact, I was about 20 years late to the party in 2017, I noticed an article in the BMJ, but it's better, which was about a metro analysis of supplementation with Vitamin D to prevent or inhibit calls flu respiration eases. Winter disease is basically spread at the time, I have to tell you, I was so quite skeptical, I'm quite used to supplement manufacturers make all sorts of outrageous claims, every sort of vitamin and seen you can think of, and I tend to discount them, but I read this with interest, and what I show Was that actually vitamin D supplementation appeared to reduce the effect of cold flu in your moment. Then when I followed up on it, there was a member too. It was even stronger.

0:03:29.6 Davis: And with that, eventually, when you got down to look at people who are deficient given supplements, not in boys today or weekly doses, I had something like a 70% reduction. So after that, I went back and started looking at the history and realized that since 1983, people have begun to understand that vitamin E as an impact on every cell in the body, and particularly on the immune cells. And that's why I get to the end of your story. Or they answer your question, when, in March of the last year, people started pointing to vitamin D deficiencies seeming to be implicated both in the infectious-ness of covid 09 and even more seriously in the mobility of mortality of it, paid attention. That was... That's the long history.

0:04:23.0 Campbell: Now, it's fascinating, and we now know that vitamin D is... Caps are in certainly in all the cells of the immune system, and you know when you're dealing with the human body, things normally have a purpose, now you could argue about the appendix and things like that, if the receptors there, they're probably doing a useful job and that kind of science seems to fit in with the correlation as well, now you mentioned a materials... Is there... Do you think the evidence base is important when we're talking about these sort of things...

0:04:51.0 Davis: Well, of course it is. I'm assigned as you start... How is saying I'm scientist by training? So I start from that point of view, but I'm... Because I'm a scientist, but running in perhaps a little bit less forgiving of signs of advice, I've said to me is, as a Martin allocation, there is a difference between the opinion of a scientist and signed to the governance

0:05:19.2 Campbell: We saw at the beginning of late here too. Doing and throwing about masks, union medical advisors saying, Don't wear math, now it's basically illegal not to wear on, you can see that there's a lot of judgement being being put forward as side of advice, which is not the same as Signor evidence. And so I start from the data...

What got his attention

0:05:44.1 Davis: Now, the problem here is, This is Med, so it's complicated. It's not Physics, you can't completely close off a system and they modulate one element of it, you know you've got a big random underlying complex system. So it's more difficult. So when they started out, the first things are being said with, Look, I think there are two or three big studies and saying, look, more people are dying for vitamin D deficient the or not the Vitamin D division, that was the son, and it was a correlation. And of course, here we are getting to all sorts of complexities about is a correlation of cars and so now, had I not read that 2017 paper about the effect on respiratory diseases generally, and remember quite a few colds are Coronavirus or... A couple Helena, I would... Maybe just a discounted. I thought, Wait a minute, this is quite important, and one of the lead researchers at Northwestern University in the States, head of a department, I think said, If this is right... It could account for 50% of deaths. And that got my attention. I thought, Wow, this thing is cheapest chips, it's penny a pill.

0:06:58.9 Campbell: It's basically non-toxic, you get lots of... You get lots and lots of old-fashioned arguments about toxicity, which we can talk about, but... But basically, no toxic, I could take 10 pills makes no difference to me.

0:07:11.3 Davis: And based on toxic, very cheap available and like unlike vaccines is not hard to me. So we should be looking at this. So what happened was, I had a good look around, came to conclusion that there was a scientific logic bears, which is not just the data, but scientifically behind it, and therefore I should write to the ATR state, so in early May have... Last year, I wrote to him saying, Can you look at this? Can you... Commission to work. Can you do something? I didn't say, just give it out as pills, I said, Let's look at this. So that was how this all sort of started this back in March, a long time at me when I wrote to him as my... It became whether the documents were sort of published in late March, the research and probably like March, I took a bit of time to read it, or

0:08:08.8 Campbell: I wasn't sending him, but it's a busy man in an santal... Lot of rabbit hole.

0:08:15.4 Davis: And when I was persuaded, not just the data was that, and not just that something similar in 2017 with fluid Colts have been done, but also that there were some logic and the logic behind it, the underpinning hypothesis, if you like, is that vitamin D is epigenetic ally but I was involved in the switching on and off at least 300 genes, at

0:08:42.2 Campbell: Least racemosa, the associated with the immune sessile, the innate immune system, what form as it were, and the inventive immune system, the one that creates a... Both of them are dependent. And thirdly, it appears to be involved in modulation of inflammation, the near famous cytokine storms, if I talk to somebody about side Ogun State to you... Well, I know 'cause I did okay. Yes, I remember in the TBRA has a one I say talk about side to go in, stormy looked at me like I just warning church, was it... What's the SIGINT now everybody here in the Killarney. And so in three ways, there was a possibility of effect, so then I wrote to him hoping that they commissioned around control trial, that's what I hope would happen, the gold standard, the gold star and a double blind one, and so...

5 studies

0:09:46.0 Davis: But they didn't instead, what nice did, look at five studies, I still disarm not case how they picked out the five studies, and they chose to believe one of them, it... Four of them said, does an effect? Once said, we don't think there is an effect. It is like so good has... How did they come to the clone... Viewers have to forgive me, 'cause when he disappeared to the perplexed stats...

0:10:14.5 Campbell: Go for it. In essence, there's a thing... Quite a confounding variable. Basically, if you are running an experiment and other things affect the outcome, that can be a confounding variable, so you're trying very lay, but variable B is dominating the outcomes, there's a lot of work in removing the effect of confounding variables. What you do is you do a regression analysis with variable B and neelam, Nate that from me, they said, Right, we're gonna remove the compounding variables for age, for ethnic minority status, for obesity, for various pathogenic status like diabetes and COPD and so on, blood pressure and son.

0:10:58.0 Davis: And the trouble with that is every single one of those so-call confounding variables is heavily associated with vitamin D, efficiency, atomic, anything, Maritsa that's

`0:11:12.6 Campbell: In strictly haveli deficiency, obesity. And so it's entirely possible. And in mid, you very likely actually detect all of those different things is mediated, the efficiency commentary, they're basically taking out everything that contributes to the vampiric and saying, Look, now there's no effect, they've rubbed the effect or so they started out with a statistical mistake in my view, and that's where I made their first... The two big mistakes. That was the first one.

0:11:52.7 Davis: But they didn't, but the way to fix that or to be a commission around a control trials, they

0:11:58.8 Campbell: Did not only did they not commission around control drive, two random control trials applied for money for funding, we'll turn down or vitamin D

0:12:07.3 Davis: Of

0:12:07.7 Campbell: The one being done at the moment, a big one being done in London, said Marist it years... I think it is a matter. They're doing it. I'm pretty sure it's not government-funded, it's either charitable are being carried on the back of the institution, so that's the first problem, and here we are, we in the middle of the disease is now kilwa, 60000 people. Just this in the UK, it's not global significance and millions in the world.

Bradford Hill criteria

0:12:37.0 Davis: And so that was a problem anyway. I left them to get on with it, I kept looking at the data, and everywhere you look around the one, this is where data where the appreciate of science is sometimes oversimplified, you will remember, I can't remember all of the details, the Bradfford criteria. And the picture, medical evidence of the weight
   Vitamin D fighting COVID-19 meets all Bradford Hill Criteria - Nov 2020

0:13:04.4 Campbell: Need those in... You've got consistency, and we've got that right across the ball, we've got dosage dependent that demonstrated not the studies and temporality are of files the other, which means that the course comes before the effect, the... Absolutely, the biological gradient. We could go through it, then you could spend a whole and more one... Each of them, you can find a study. It

0:13:38.6 Davis: Study here shows temporality is, shows it's not reversed causality, for example, on the arguments being put, well, maybe it's the covid 19 that's causing the deficiency in vitamin D or the other are except

0:13:53.1 Campbell: In DS made by human beings with UVB falling on Kate's a study that's been done that shows the incidence of infectious-ness in individual countries is inversely correlated by the UVB on a given day, the more ultraviolet like that is, the more underwater is the Sun rises, the infection, and I said, This is why this is easy, so massively season ops off like a stone in the end of winter and start to get you not to... But anyway, so across the board, all the present Hill criteria are met.

Correlation of Cancer with smoking

0:14:31.6 Davis: And by the way, just so people know who is, he's one of the two great doctors who really discovered the connection between smoking and lung cancer.

0:14:41.9 Campbell: And you know, you couldn't put people in laboratories and make them smoke 20 packs a day for 50 men. They did it with dogs.

0:14:52.2 Davis: Lead you couldn't have a random control all and human beings for that, right. So they quite properly devised a better method of logic, if you applied that across the board to all of the evidence or with in there not just one study, and then it's proven, as far as I'm concerned, it's proven, it's 99 or something percent. Proven is. Doesn't do that. NiICE is designed in a national intracranial accident is not sure for... But what is designed to do is designed to take a drug and expensive drug, probably probably a drug with dangerous side to deal with the disease, what people are dying from, but not at the right to 65-year-old

0:15:42.5 Campbell: Look very carefully, but the one experiment pop before them is, as this drug, it does this test lead these criteria, what are the side effects is it... Does it have a causal effect on carrying the disease, they don't do... Well, there's evidence over there, and there's evidence over there, and put it all together and say, Actually, you know, we've picked every single box in this... This is no problem. They didn't do that with this, this technique, Austen bright for Hill and Richard Doll, he was this technique because people didn't used to know that smoking causes lung cancer... Exactly, people didn't used to know the smoking cast heart disease, and that's how we found this out using these very techniques that you're describing, why are we using it now?

0:16:25.1 Davis: Well, I think the other problem which exists, I think... And well, we'll see this when we talk about the next nice stuff. The other problem is I think there's sorta innate projects, which I had to be there in the beginning, against supplement, if people say, We'll take this up and a date, you need an whatever it might be. I will be very disbelieve-ing, I say, Show me the double-blind trial.

Doctors predisposed not to believe in vitamin D

0:16:51.4 Campbell: Estate industry is over claimed in the past, and that be fair. Let's be clear about it. And so to say with this... And I actually won't talk to the Vitamin D-C at all, I said now, they ask to see me, I said, No, you can't see me because I've got to maintain my impartiality on these matters, but doctors, I suspect are very suspicious of that... First off, that's the first thing. Or the medical fraternity tends to be... And so that makes them predispose not to believe this, whereas if you're talking about something like deck or ether, so steroid, they know that works in some circumstances for some diseases, so they're a bit more inclined towards IT, maybe they think the same, but I've maxed it, which is likely to be, I think, beneficial too, and so on, and of course, they know vaccines work, we've all wine are both growing up in the era of the vaccine population, so they work where as this sounds a bit just a bit good to be true, I suspect as well. It's too many of them. Almost almost too simple. It's got to be more complicated. I mean, doctors are clever people, we have...

0:17:59.0 Campbell: To have a clever answer. Yeah.

0:18:00.8 Davis: The other thing is, I think for a long time, some of us have said that there is a pandemic, a vitamin D deficiency.

Why we need vitamin D

0:18:10.0 Campbell: And my hunch, and this is just Huntsville, GE, is the vitamin D is actually so heavily above the immune system, it's actually large and responsible for most temperate winter diseases that... Because as a species, we have come north of 40 degrees of the 40th parallel to the real attitude above, which in winter we don't make any vitamin, and so we are not just notion even you got the sun sunny outside today, even you understand now doesn't is low in the sky, the tasso, you start with, this prejudice against it. In fact, I think what Public Health England should have been doing years ago is actually talking about supplementation or fortification, one of the bits of evidence is look at the Nordic countries, hand, you've got a whole range of policy there from Sweden, a completely libertarian policy through to know way are really quite tough policy and Finland and so on, Kaikoura, and you'll find it all got low incidents of covid 19 and certainly lower instance as anyway of fatalities. Why? Well, every single one fortify their food, milk, flower, and so on, we... Why? Because they're so far north, they actually notice the effect on their system, and actually there's almost a living experiment in Finland who did it in two stages, and you can see the step movement in flues.

0:19:49.7 Davis: That's where you start from, that's why... And these are good people. I look, people don't take up, made it the medical profession to kill people, they tell you, thank you, to save their lives, so they're good people, but like all one of us there, you... And they've got prejudices, and they start, how am I gonna allocate my time... I love that. Spending ridiculous, that's where you stop, then we come to what I think was a great failure of the second and bigger failure of... Nice. And it was over a study and you talked about it on your channel, and you along your child and what it did, in essence, they took 76 people, 26 or in a control group... No Vitamin D-50 in the vitamin D group, all the 26, half had to go to the ICU, they got so sick there, age... I see you.

0:20:41.6 Campbell: I have

0:20:42.7 Davis: Been the group. One out of six. So people down to two, that's a compile chain, that's the incredible change. And some died in the control as well. Nobody did. That's not big enough. Salome, sure, that makes it into... Well, what did nice and I said, Well, it wasn't properly double-bond, well, ethically, it's hard to make something completely double blind, if you think it's gonna work, if you think something's gonna work and you're saying to 26 people, you're not gonna have this... Then you are in your mind condemning them to the state, say it's not double-blind, and as a result, the doctor is making the reference to is to save people to the ICU might have been by... Well, you know, I got on, I got on the email, I got on, I got in touch with people at whatever, speak to, I don't know, a nice... Her expert in these things. Maybe they're right. Let me talk to... So I do, and they said, Well, actually, number one, the doctors may have known about it, technically, it was on the file, but they weren't administering each more... The reference to ICU is not just a judgment for doctor, that's a protocol, now you've got to meet a whole series of empirical conditions to a ordovician.

0:22:02.6 Davis: So it wasn't very plausible that this was a bit, but it would look at being a fire of 25 times seven, even if they've known and they're given the pills themselves, they wouldn't have made a 25 times errand. That's the thing, it's about a million to one chance of that being an out of... That's the problem. So that's where we are now, and at least that's where we've got to a little while then I told the acetate about it, and I said, Look, why don't you just get some doctors in some hospitals on a mission, a collegian for your audience is the FAST Act in variant of a breakdown, the block, or even me, take three weeks to up to three weeks to three days to three weeks, we have an impact to be processed by the liver once on a rain. It's great media say, Why do you just give... I don't know, 10 hospitals just give the Congo selatan, they're death rate. What happens for them is rather they could release people quicker and so on... They didn't do that. Again, I think there's a back pressure from the advisors, but andesite Spanish region in which the portable hospital is, or at least they did it for A...

0:23:26.6 Davis: And the given councilwoman, and if you look at the death, I think I sent you gratuitous balance it down from about 50 to 17 a day, down to 50 to 15, 550 from November until the end. Tercentenary, it seemed to me... Where's the home? Yeah.

Drug side effects

0:23:56.4 Campbell: No side effects, a tall report from the calcification essentially, I'm not safe for the other drugs, I mean, you'll be as familiar with me, the termite noise, all drugs and surgeries can have credible side effects where this is... We can never say safe, but so much safer than say ibuprofen, for example, or the commonly used drugs or to paracetamol.

0:24:24.0 Davis: Well, yes, and certainly aspirin is oldest, the oldest analgesic in the world as Brian, give you a... None the... We could have long debated by Helicobacter and so another day, another one. But the thing is, to be fair to the deities or the... Not doctors so much, intimately about half the GPS and I... Take me deal themselves. Personally.

0:24:58.9 Campbell: Yes. Yes, there's always a case.

0:25:03.1 Davis: Adviser asked how the fear they had... I think there are a couple of things. Firstly, way back in the 55s when they did 45 mine still on ratchet, wasn't Ohio, and they had a bit of a scare because some people had typical... They had more calcium, Aristocrat of IFRS and kidney stones, that sort of stuff in children, but it turned out to be... And so we bond fortification for a while, and it turned out to be a false along because it was a genetic disease that are detecting tens of... Not really, I purification in... As much as there's been any evidence of toxicity, it's tens of times... Hundreds of times. Then we're talking about a hundred, and I mean, if you go into a phone and ask for Vitor, that matter going, all of the mares were... And so I ate capsules, a fair chance would be given 4000 is massive unit counsel that was topic... Wouldn't we gotta pass the food and drugs in water, they call it, they think it, the people who approve that, and it's not... And that's a sort of thing I should... And that's the last problem we have a notes and that they are doing something after all a pressure from us, they're beginning to hand out Vitamin D to C, hominid to prisoners, but they're giving them kind 400...

0:26:46.9 Davis: 400 units at that.

Effective dose 4,000 IU   (in months)

0:26:48.7 Campbell: So Finns, that's like 10 micrograms, isn't it? Whereas the effective does, we're talking about is 4000 International Units, which is 100 micrograms, so they're giving a tenth of the required dose there, what we're really talking about is how much there is in the blood...

Loading dose

0:27:07.1 Davis: Yes, and that's what we're really talking on, how much poodle isn't that... And that needs to be re-changed animals or whatever, it needs to be at the level, a certain level way about four, five times it, then people consider as necessary to prevent bones is... Yes, and... Or what the trouble is, we're stuck in the era or preventing rickets. Well, by the time I'm in a care home, which he probably worked very long, I won't be worrying about rickets... No, I'm worried about... Respiratory disease is a work... Be worrying about Ricketts for dosage, level of is to treat the wrong illness really in a way, and the people are deficient, they need a much higher dose or not to top them up, they needed what they need is... You don't know the phrase I... A loading dose of... Big dose of that up then... I can't remember the numbers, you can probably look it up and put it on screen, but the Concordia numbers that they gave, and I'm talking now, they activate report casinos, they gave at Cordoba were very high. Something like 100,000 units or something. It was huge.

0:28:15.3 Campbell: Yeah, it was, it was in numbers here

0:28:17.0 Davis: To get the dose up, and then they gave quite high doses, I think day three, and they said... And that's probably the way to do it. Truly is this hard. Placebo is the home. No, we don't hypothesis. We know it has an effect on flutes. Yeah, yes, that is known. Yes, if you are in the range where you're at risk from covid, you're also at risk of fires, that's why I get rung up every year by my foot, my local GP to say, Come and have your flu jab, 'cause I'm in that age group, they think my diamond, you're gonna get protection from those restaurant diseases anyway, even if we are, I would not, but let's imagine we're 100% on a one, then you're still gonna get protection from the other killers, the other wins. That's where they are. And one of the reasons I keep this back long because once in there, once we get past the vaccination statewide, in theory, we'll protect it, now it may be there be a mutation which undermines protection, we don't know, but it therewith protected, but this is actually more generally valuable, this is dealing with a human...

0:29:49.4 Davis: Humans living in the temperate zone weakness, this is a deficiency that we have because of where we live in, because of what we eat and how it starts, and if we get the government rounds or saying, Okay, we now agree, we're gonna give everybody one at risk groups. 000 a day, I'll their units, whatever. In the future, we'll help prevent future pandemic being quite so, another pre-on protecting, it costs a battle still to be one there, even if we're late today.

0:30:25.5 Campbell: So we know about the vitamin D deficiency, causing immuno deficiency, but what people are probably less aware over the associations with heart disease, the associations with the... Probably type 1 diabetes, the associations with probably multiple cross... The association with colon can is a pretty strong one. Auto-immune effects that probably... Well.

0:30:50.2 Davis: I won't pretend to know a great mathematics of that, I just observe the data, which exploit... What you're saying is right, if I were campaigning on that, I go back and study the mechanic... Sure, but I don't know that they're quite so well proven, they're not... There's good correlations with things like colon, cancer and lowered and the other's a probably an order and unified going on or... Or it might simply be a vermin, even cancer killed by information in the last stages, it might even be just an imaginative keeping it in the right range, because we tend to forget that our immune system or systems designed to kill, and if they properly calibrated, they kill the butthole, they're not properly calibrated, they probably fill up

0:31:40.9 Campbell: All when they go on the most certainly do, yeah. And another strong calculation that I'm getting interested in now is the poster... Prostate cancer, right? So that seems to be another one. The convening here, I say that we're both of the... Awe, worry, you certainly may say that, And let's... So for them, than watching live long enough to experience what we're going

0:32:05.4 Davis: At... Absolutely. There is an interesting, I think this interest revolution coming to something in public health, Germany, what elements of your diet affect some of these things? And again, there's a lot of data out there, but it's not susceptible to the standard checklist sort of tick the boxes, a color by numbers approach that sometimes is taken.

0:32:39.5 Campbell: Which is where our last... In Bradford and Richard, don't come in there. We're quoting the best in the business, I don't we...

0:32:47.2 Davis: I don't know, I propagate Nobel Prize, but he deserved one. Yeah.

0:32:52.8 Campbell: Absolutely. For the thought process.

0:32:57.6 Davis: But the revolutionary thought process, you brought to that.

0:33:01.5 Campbell: You find different streams of people or different parts of the world have different diseases.

French nursing homes gave Vitamin D

0:33:08.4 Davis: Part of the world, we have a lot of curcumin in India, we got Carrington in the diet and tend to see depression of things like prostate cancers and other cancers, and so on, and I actually think we all read in these fancy color supplements about this or that... Wonderful, superficially like to do is to see a side of the institute that went through that in a cold-hearted Coley analytical way and said, Right, does this work? But does it not work? Let's look at the... Because often, you don't actually have to carry out around control trial to do something, you can sort of create one from events taking your covid and the... Where were some finger... Some French care homes were in the habit of giving doses of within D to the in to their patients on a three-monthly cycle. Somebody found that this is actually an experiment. 'cause I could find out if they had those in the months before
  Residents of a Nursing Home who choose monthly Vitamin D had 4X fewer COVID-19 deaths – Nov 2, 2020
  French Consensus – 200,000 IU of Vitamin D if get COVID-19 – Dec 22, 2020
0:34:29.1 Campbell: The onset of covid or two months or three months when there was in fact a Loyola founders

0:34:33.7 Davis: In fact, 'cause if you look at her and his deities of data and Tite

0:34:38.1 Campbell: Tasting data. Yeah, basically there... You had a pre-formed experimental group, they know you do is get a placebo group to a bar with a great... You had a ready-made experiments in the public health domain, vitamin D is just... There's such low-hanging fruit, isn't it? It really is the one we can access first, it's not hanging it all, so to foment sheet, people know about it, it's made from landless, your... I don't know if you are in around you, I've been... Needle is if your loads of lowland in on the back of the sheet. You tell us, I don't know day. Tell me, I do. Landline is a sort of waxing is that

0:35:21.5 Davis: You find on wall, that's how she or approve their wall, and it's a derivative of cholesterol is a leopard, the easiest way to minimise a very quick, easy process. Processing, land and its dire, the raw materials are very cheap, so straight away, it's easy to make and you can make as much of it as you... Like that's the person. The second thing is just I almost dominant. It's a sort of raw material that's been knocking around Human and Primate... In mammalian physiology forever, I

Animals need vitamin D

0:36:07.3 Campbell: Think it's throughout the entire animal kingdom, it's so high desert
   Vitamin D has acutally been an essential part of all plants and animals on earth for over 750 million years

0:36:10.8 Davis: Will be certainly all of the Illini can't speak to. I haven't testified as a result, the way invite... The Way evolution works, if it's there, I'll use it, And so system build a building, which is why I think it's so important to the activation of the unique immune system, which is very primitive, goes back millions of years, and the adaptive immune system, which is not quite so hold the one that works on antibodies, and so it's beneficial for the things we know about, we know it... It helps the immune system, Cosi, think Actually, you know. And restaurateurs in... I think most doctors, I accept that actually. I mean, the majority, and they bothered to think about it anyway, and read and read it up, something other than bicycle company journals. Absolutely the most acceptor relation events you say, who are series of other ethnic suspect, if you did a sort of expectation of life analysis on the base of the ideas, you probably fine just as just... We know what BMI Elisabet you for the noble mortality exercise in within

0:37:35.8 Campbell: That could be done now with metadata, that could be doable with victory... Got the human buyback

0:37:43.2 Davis: In the UK, I do. You've got quite a lot of things here. Quite a lot of data available at testis, very easy, it's a finite... It's not giving what to do, it seems to me that the public health in when it gets re-constitute was almost serology, bad, pandemic, when it gets reconstituted. And Boris, the prime minister that start saying, Okay, what do we do from now on to learn, learn from all this, and I do something about it. I think this is one of the things that should be on it again... Absolutely, absolutely. It got even

0:38:27.9 Campbell: A look at everything, the analytical techniques to look at everything, and now there for the first time in human history, we could be doing this...

0:38:35.3 Davis: It's very interesting, in a way, it may so ridiculous to say that we sort of fallen lucky with a pandemic, but we are lucky that we are in a position where we can molecularly engineer back...

0:38:54.3 Campbell: Well, that's exactly what we've done. Isn't it? Absolutely, and now we have about four schools of ranging from dead bugs were the old school mashup and kill him

0:39:08.1 Davis: Yet through to message are absolutely. And all those... So we've been lucky in that sense. And also is a big data announced in very light, I have a privacy container.


0:39:23.3 Campbell: You are... Another time, but it can be done. It can be done completely anonymously that... Good, I get lots of emails from people saying, This is all a conspiracy by Big Pharma.. Now you're probably in a position to comment on that. Do you think there has been vested interest that is targeted firing... For example, the Moderna vaccine is the most expensive, the fire is the second most expensive. The Oxford is the cheapest. And you look at where vaccines have been taken up around the world, that's probably a seat debate, but if we look at vitamin D, as you say, it's dirt cheap, you can buy it. That's my tutor. Just about nothing.

0:40:07.8 Davis: You plan your brand, and the last time I saw you.

Vitamin D shelves often empty

0:40:09.7 Campbell: Chalke, to tell you the truth, it's been hard to get... If you go to the supermarket in the evenings, but the vitamin D shelf is often empty now, which is really encouraging.

0:40:22.8 Davis: You know, I think if nothing else, you and I have done a service by Carrie, not kidding. No, I hope so. I've gotta go to the House of Commons now and everybody... I say them, I'm about to go on about them in the case I want to have to Baldwin they say, So I take... I am, I take enough they ask me about those in... That's good. But do you think... Is there this trend to go for the clever... For the expensive... Well, obviously, pharmaceutical companies, I have no vested interest in advertising vitamin D, 'cause they got a month... Not a factor. I think there are a couple of things down on here, one of them, as I said, is a past over claiming as it something with industry will reduce the reputation, but there's also a perfecting... If you're going buy your wife a bottle, perfume and you buy a very cheap bottle, but... Or you buy a very expensive bottle, which ones like the smell bad...

0:41:22.0 Campbell: I definitely the expensive one. And there's a little bit about that about it. People, a good point, yeah. Moosonee

0:41:32.3 Davis: It... We've lived in an era, have been around really almost the entire penicillin, almost a decade beyond the end, we've come to trust drugs and come to trust site pharmacology and so on, and that as we say, that in the long run could be a mistake, a friend of mine is he dead now, but he was a Nobel prize gold. James Black got to change black. He invented Beatles. Oh.

0:42:10.5 Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

0:42:12.1 Davis: He also invented, I forgot the name of whatever it is that they can... Or whatever it is that makes a agonist.

0:42:23.4 Campbell: The proton pump inhibitors. That

0:42:25.1 Davis: Would be it. That's teachers.

0:42:26.9 Campbell: There was the 2 blockers, then there was the pro on Pompeii.

0:42:30.5 Davis: And he basically designed both as the as the first advocate design of designer, a very clever man, neoprene stuff, nobody. The only man in the world with two major patents with his name and saw, and I met him and got to know him and liked him, and I once said to a... I said, If you... 'cause I try to get in my chief scientists that are failed because the scientific bureaucracy didn't want to let a real site is the... But you had one wish. What would you do to change? Moderne said, Well, he said, I don't like the effect of period, the said peer review is necessarily said, but it has the effect of making everybody do the same thing over and over and over, because the easier to get into things that hereward else. What I would do, if I have my work is I give every professor one angry one, one of his clever at PhDs, but then something completely made it for that, and the difficulty... So that was... It's a very clever man. And knew what you were doing. I knew the industry and us, and there's a point in this and that is that if all of the money and all of the corporate resource and all of the government involved...

0:44:11.3 Davis: I go one direction, it can make you very blinkers, it's not a conspiracy, but it's a sort of constant...

0:44:21.5 Campbell: Eve got you, I've got you.

0:44:23.3 Davis: Yeah, and he wanted to break the company, if I had a way, I don't think are doing... If I could think of a way of breaking that comfort or other than just a big and standing up the plate, don't work on that, because that's a

0:44:38.0 Campbell: Content and of course, publications transpose into grant money into... Nicely.

0:44:46.4 Davis: Right, this thing... But one of the distractions about this process is that nobody got money for a random control trial of vitamin D chart back in March when we had lots of patients who was a Saints... A short hair patients and some of it. But when we were a lot of patients in a series, it would have been the simplest thing to carry out and

0:45:09.8 Campbell: The recovery... Trials never even mentioned it, for example... No.

0:45:13.7 Davis: No, no, and I'm pretty sure that welcome as well, it was the big name, got mental fund, I didn't, in fact, may even have excluded it editing to it. So that's where you leave a solo ad money effect, you need to be a... Outline, comfortable, central thesis.

0:45:38.1 Campbell: I love that idea of Mad Money, it's where a lot of scientific breakthroughs have come from in the past...

0:45:45.2 Davis: I was pleasing. He's like about us. And he go back to Arius. So your audience now... Yeah, go here, go back to Alois now thought to be broadly thought to be the primary cause of answers.

0:46:03.0 Campbell: Way back the stumbles to a Delaware up to this, right.

0:46:08.5 Davis: And basin gastritis or very sort was worry and stress, and so on, and then along came a couple of Australian doctors...

0:46:19.5 Campbell: I remember their names. Barry Marshall Marshall was a one-term. Yeah, I can't remember the name of the backlash, I think it was the O, but Barry Marsha was the clinician and the other... Almost the microbiologist and

0:46:32.5 Davis: They had a problem, demonstrate that to the medical community was skeptical a long time, then Marshall by open himself to make sure he didn't have Helicobacter himself, which is horrible to... You do anyway, maybe.

0:46:54.6 Campbell: And then gave himself as a disease and drank a big shot of it, didn't take a big cut of it too.

0:47:03.2 Davis: He basically did, and I was one experiment proved. And he got the Nobel Prize for... That's what he had to do to break through

0:47:14.8 Campbell: The... Break out the old year perfectly.

0:47:16.8 Davis: Proper conservatives. And I thought I'm by saying being small, so politics on behavior, small to conservative, so is a good thing in doctors generally, until you're trying to lease...

0:47:30.9 Campbell: When a lot of these doctors train that are now in senior positions, you learned there's two sorts of vitamins, B and C, water soil can't over do A-D-E-K, fatal can overdose job on importing to the next... If they're sort of simplistic thinking that's still there... Yeah, that simply, it doesn't move with the evidence, this is the thing, it has to move with the epidemics

0:47:51.5 Davis: In my life, in my life. You know that what you have to do, if you wanna persuade something, you're sticking their mind on a memorable story... I don't know whether you can remember the memorable story about Diana and D overdose, the pallava...

0:48:11.4 Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pollsters that the moon and afraid, this isn't very tasteful, but that the Arctic explorers eating their dogs, livers, Dottie, and basically... That's how they survive. But

0:48:28.0 Davis: They got it, and it was actually primarily, we think of it, not the area, but a lot of people I talk to have had many a traitor nurses for doctors, and I remember just generally that the toxicity... And so they think, Bitterroot-ly evidence. Note all evidence and you can... Is not... So you've got that problem too, and the other thing is, look, am full of admiration that you mean because there's an American phrase called drinking from the sitcom no but God. But it sort of describes how you receive information when you go to medical school, you are absorbing vast amounts of data, fast amount, more than any other study, and I did a pretty hard science degree and they're trying to crocheting reason to one, and it was very, very high data, and by comparison were doing an arts or history degree or whatever...

0:49:28.1 Campbell: A different game, right?

0:49:29.8 Davis: Yeah, and having a father, because the medical degree is a real drinking from a fire hose experience, you get... The idea is like, you get the dream. And so I'm not surprised that they just basically remember a nugget England that sticks in their mind and they worked at that, that's how it is them, and I'm not surprised it... They probably learn statistic I wrote to basically, the statistical theory and the vitalis based on a whole load of assumption, some of which are a bit dubious, like natural distributions were always Bebel curves and toyotomi that we shouldn't understand. It's a car there, it's a cop there once that it's a top area to innovate it, and sometimes the thing to help you understand, make it difficult to innovate 'cause you've got to depart from what's safe, you've got to take risk and you're dealing in human lie. It's so difficult, but I think public health is dual revolution, it really is, and it's not just on this, it's on, it's on diet. You'll know Raul about the answer keys and she was back in to

0:50:51.5 Campbell: What issues? And so is the guy who did all the stuff on saturated fats... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:50:56.8 Davis: Yeah. There's lots to be reviewed, there is... I used to work with a Lakeside in theory. I'm preaching, I'm the entirely favor the shoelaces.

0:51:10.2 Campbell: I think

0:51:12.6 Davis: There are things here which we have a lot to insulin resistance, there's a whole range of areas of fewer physio ending, where we could probably say about a quarter of the cost of the health service on a diabetes care...


0:51:30.8 Campbell: The diabetes is a massive on globally, we're looking at 9% of the global population in our diabetic is... That's right, that's right. It is a pandemic, in a real sense of the word, it

0:51:41.3 Davis: Pandemic and whatever I'm... The people was gonna happen, the Brittan, I look at America because they tend to arrive there 10 years before us, and a vast number of Americans over 40 are pre-diabetic, here they're suffering for metabolic syndrome or one sorority... We need to get a grip on that. And that means public health has been a Cinderella area for a very, very long corallo, the set of field is in heart transplant

0:52:13.0 Campbell: And you drove new victims, and so the things that make doctors look clever... Of course. And quite rightly, idolize him, and I don't disagree with that.

0:52:26.3 Davis: A contribution to human life, you

0:52:28.5 Campbell: Think, Gosh, of course.

0:52:30.3 Davis: We've done in a year, what would have taken a decade? Only 10 years ago. So that's fine, but also just the raw basics of Public Health, really... The Victorias had a revolution, public or that was about seance water, all of that, people who live in big sipping without going down with color every five minutes or whatever it might be, and I think today is public, Copeland went quite be down to John's now taking the proper rostral be down to somebody who says A prime into whatever health sector says, Actually, we're gonna completely review every element of our public alibis... I've done through Apis and so on. As I saw, I used to work for Take Miles. I know this story on the inside, I don't think these people that work there are bad people, they're not... They're good people, but if a government says, These are the rules, you, you can't use this amount of saturated, you can't use this than that, and you should have maybe half your two-thirds of your calorie intake from carbohydrates and a third from proteins and a quarter from fat or whatever, the pyramids, you know, as

0:54:03.4 Campbell: The old fashioned kind of topiramate, the

0:54:05.7 Davis: Old determine now think quite a lot of people think it's completely wrong if the comment says that the man in the street might ignore it, but the food presses processes dot It can't... So they work within these rules and then they work out, Okay, how can we do that more perfect reason, look, as you wanna get cheap for them, how can we do anyway, we taste don't want... Which makes me buy more, that's what business I do fall and all of something you've got yourself a process for industry from the original process of right through to the McDonalds and the whatever, that generate something which fits a set of rules and don't work. It actually make us more diabetic or more

0:54:54.7 Campbell: Factories, there's a few more videos I could make in the next few weeks to work...

0:55:00.7 Davis: Maybe not next week. There's revolution at

More Pandemics in the future

0:55:04.2 Campbell: Some PE. What you say makes perfect sense. David, this is all fascinating. I've got a couple of other quick questions, if you don't mind, so is there going to be another pandemic after this one, or... It is the pandemic to... And orange is no, they'll be not a band. The truth, the matters you've got... Firstly, in China, you've got the interface between Industrial Society and while Anand, that is a machine for making viral bacteriological and fungal mutations and introducing them into the population, that's a... Yes.

0:55:50.8 Davis: Second thing is, we have designed accidentally in the last 50 years, maybe even 30 years, a global transmission... Yes, the amount of people traveling around the world has gone up dozens of times, not

0:56:11.1 Campbell: Yet a percent that dozens of MIT in the last allround

0:56:18.6 Davis: The world, we happily go off. Next instead, one of the interesting stories about covid would be the transmission macaroni from China to Northern Italy, then through everything, but all matches the resort. You've got some institutional multipliers on these things, right? Wise of us were talking about literally last January, but

0:56:43.3 Campbell: You know, we were... We were in a You were network.

0:56:47.8 Davis: And they were telling us we were being spousal Ely, so you've got all of that going on now that's still there. So when this pandemic is over, and I think as a brutally dangerous disease, it'll be over the commercial, get the on 50% of vaccination. We won't be authored immunity, but we'll be at a point where the disease alter... I'm sorry, I work where inhibits their fast transmission sand, we will have protected all the people who are like to go from those two things.

0:57:25.9 Campbell: The best majority. Yes, yeah.

0:57:28.2 Davis: So it will still be there, but as fluids kill people, but we don't stop the economy every year to flu, it's a balance, we decide, right for one, make that decision

0:57:44.3 Campbell: Now. So we'll have that now that's China.

0:57:48.9 Davis: The mechanisms for transmission will go back into Clint, we'll start and having skills again, we'll go back to data.

0:57:55.9 Campbell: Those are institutional transmitter

0:57:57.8 Davis: As they are accelerated, so we'll have all of that, and the global economy probably won't recover completely, but they will go back a lot closer to where it was, where it was the years ago, so those trees but then was gonna have a master world gonna move... The future economy is probably gonna be an Africa, and guess what, you're gonna have another industrial wild animal that... And where people are used to, hunting, me

0:58:24.8 Campbell: To react the Chinese, it's not just China, it's Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, where the attitude to animals is completely different to the one we have, but to look at ourselves, what do you think about the... So the mono-culture we have in agriculture now that you might get a million chickens that are all basically genetically the same, or you've

0:58:50.0 Davis: Got... You've got two things going on at once. You've got the diversity of the microbial world versus the homogeneity of our economic buyers who... I probably do it by Prashant, just agitator. So you can... Bias takes something like to Berkeley, you've got drug resistance, Temecula strains now and Dr. T-B. Multiple repetition of merciless, not Sally Davies, the previous Chief Medical Ober wrote a book, I think it's called something like when the drugs stopped working with the red, it's a very slim little volume and well, are antibiotics is wearing out. And one of the effects of the economics of the pharmaceutical industry is that it becomes more and more uneconomic to do the work necessary for a new antibiotic, and governments are thinking about things like buying up the supplies or antibiotic and deliberately not using it. When along comes a new disease, we've got something to hold the line with as it were, yeast resort a lot as a... But what I also think we're in seether gonna be a lot of outcomes of this letter, the story I've been ranting on about pandemics since is down from cabin. I've long been interested in the subject.

1:00:30.7 Davis: We had a meeting, I'm not the only one, there's one or two other MPs, but only wanted to other ants who are interested, backed a meeting in the House of Commons 18 months ago to just try two years ago, and we have a high class medical and scientific personnel there, and I think we had less than half a dozen temples than... If we had that meeting next week, if we are allowed to turn up, I better, we'll have 100 in and the rest, because it's a whole people that there's an issue that's got to be dealt with next time, this time maybe there was an excuse people made mistakes that they're always doing this thing... Maybe I use next time it's... No, it's kind... I think everything from the way we design microbiological biological research, in essence, what we're looking at now is an arms race between the ability of our scientific capacity to respond, the ability of the bug, whether whether it's a virus, bacteria or fungus or some of these other funny things in between accounts don't quite understand prior personages, infectious, parsonage thing, whatever it is, they're limited versus our ability to deal with it, it's gonna be an armed, we have to invest in the answers, and so we spend billions on...

1:02:15.5 Davis: You is one wrote have to invest in his answers 'cause all like the killers in the ucaas, I say that the drugs are wearing out with you again, to be slightly boring. I keep in AENEAS, it has felt our immune system.

1:02:39.4 Campbell: Everything... I've got the whole thing. And somebody else, every... Bob, this is completely non-specific because it is helping the entire immune system, both layers of it, and

1:02:51.7 Davis: Ally, and somebody told me, and I've never been able to ground, but somebody told me that 30% of the human genome is accounting for my passage reactions

1:03:06.3 Campbell: Are... I think this firm data that at least 7% is viable, and then you've got the other pathogens as well... Absolutely, through the reverse transcriptase mechanism

1:03:17.1 Davis: And some comment about the inter-breeding with the Anita and so is they were first into the net as it were, they probably have more time getting used to the local pathogen, then I was happy and when they came up from... At it's a battle, it's been going on for millions of years, certainly in our species, hundreds, 000 years, and it's gonna go on to get... It's gonna go on and it's gonna go on under a faster, faster and fast the pace. So now, this isn't the last pandemic by initiation of the... Again, you keep tripping over bits of evidence, one of the things that was quite interesting was that from the 30s when people started 45, 43 and we started for by a bit of bite indeed until until the 55s when we started, there was no... There was a flu pandemic in 18, he was in another one till the 50 in between times 40 by Vitamin D made was support of the solutions to the Boulton taking people out in the Sunset or at the disused margin of the stuff

Some hospital beds could be pushed out to the balconies

1:04:38.5 Campbell: I worked on our hospital wards where you could open huge doors and push all the beds onto the balconies.

1:04:44.1 Davis: Fresh air to blow... To cut the line, what today we would say cut the viral load of... Absolutely, yeah, that's what that's doing. All this only of almost caretaking Gale approach to disease work, it can work as well. Anaplan did do the other, and at

1:05:02.9 Campbell: Abarth results were as obvious, the results weren't just quick

Washing hands to stop infection in hospitals

1:05:05.9 Davis: Now, and it took time and it didn't work for everybody, I've come at the margin, and they didn't go for nothing, they spent a lot of money on sanitation, and that's it. And they understood that washing hands is important, but even when they did or didn't understand why... I'm not sure whether this preposterous.

1:05:29.5 Campbell: She is pre, but she was posting on file, so malice, of course, we were... And washing it in Vienna, you were going up on... So he was the one that instituted hand washing to prevent pre-perio fever in value in the 1830s. Oh, really? Oh, other radical. But they're horrendous through about 20-22% from Pope Rio fever, and when the into introduced hand washing, it introduced handwashing went down to 2 or 3% because they were doing post-Martens in the morning, and then they were going on to do PV examinations immediately afterwards.

1:06:03.1 Davis: And its entry in quite a lot, a great risk of disproven, but Caetano ledge was more effective than we think it was.

1:06:13.4 Campbell: Absolutely, absolutely.

1:06:15.9 Davis: I was watching a film last night about the Battle of Alton, now giving you from the wrong side the pen, and you wouldn't know where that is, but

1:06:26.1 Campbell: We don't hear about that kind of stuff up here.

1:06:28.6 Davis: Or particularly since the lancastrians de lost it. It was the biggest battle in the history... Literature roses. Yeah, Rose it. And I think they think 28000 people killed. They do got some people that have been buried recently, and what was interesting about the scale it and say No, it was not the visit, the wounds that killed him, it was the wounds that they had previously, and I had a man who'd had a sold cotton shaper is your broker is to heal... You look back and you find other evidence of trepidation going on and so... So clearly down the age is something in which we forget about sometimes that Partha sort of sad LRO, you would automatically expect it to become infected and not here, but yet it clearly had... You can... Into something was down, it wouldn't have been done with any degree of understanding, you're just in something that worked, is an interesting one acre that... Which relates to co. They each taunted Medical School. There are about half a dozen practitioners who decided, I think quite early on, we're going to look and just see what works, I don't know what works, but I'm gonna see what works.

1:07:52.0 Davis: And they designed a protocol which included a demeanor trip.

1:07:56.2 Campbell: It does here, which basically cut the death work in the hospital, they had influence by 75, that's the math plus one protocol tilsit. Exactly, it's the maternal.

1:08:14.7 Davis: That's what our ancestors did.

Use what works - example: honey as on antiseptic

1:08:16.8 Campbell: Yes, yes. They look what works like that word, whatever, and honey being used as an antiseptic

1:08:27.2 Davis: Alcohol being... Using those sorts of things, but even today in sometimes if you're in a hurry, the scientific method is incredibly valuable, so I'm like that to say what works, do it and then come back and work out. And why.

1:08:43.1 Campbell: I just got on with Oligocene

1:08:47.4 Davis: Now in business, I'm not a successful life, I'm now going back to school to find out how I did it.

1:08:54.5 Campbell: Absolutely. If I say you're describing the value of empiricism, it

1:08:59.2 Davis: Is important, and we have... When we have our next plan of it, to come back to your question, we may have an extant in... The battle is gonna be a mixture of pre, pre-cooked secret, worked up side where we're designed... I would take something like the PCR or team machine. For the audience, it's basically, it's a sort of molecular photocopy multiply, not copies a Maranatha was desire something else

1:09:44.4 Campbell: Completely. I've been using one for flu for years to diagnose influenza, but it was designed even designed for something else. Yeah, basically

1:09:58.2 Davis: Banshee need to be able to think about what our tools... If that tool has not been there, we wouldn't even know how many people had it on... Absolutely.

1:10:14.1 Campbell: It's such a fundamental point, man, why did the Scientific Revolution happened in the 1660s and 70s and 80s in London? And I did... That's where the city revolution happening is because people like Robert hook were making clever machines, it's because machines and the watch making the Harris and he made his clock and the one... All these clever things that were done, we were scientists using machines, the tools were there, and that's what I loved, that scientific revolution to take place, and Galileo and the whole nature of the universe, but I'm certainly... Yeah.

1:10:54.9 Davis: Without a telescope. Because I said, No, I absurdist the number 10 people about Project Galileo, when you think about the instruments for next step, but light you want to amend what we're talking to, that it's gonna be a mixture of what we can do on the basis of where the instrument weaponry that we have in North, plus a whole lot of very fast imperatives, and so

1:11:27.2 Campbell: We need to... Synergies, both approaches.

1:11:29.7 Davis: Exactly, and this time around when there was a thing called exercise things, which was to exercise with stigma as in Swansea signature, and it was devised, it was done in white for I think 2017 actually, and it was basically how we cut pandemic, and what they did was they had a white... A command post exercise, in other words, people give orders to, this has happened, so this is how we respond and so on, which is all finding good, but it didn't go down, for example, he didn't send anyone but the PPE was still in date or become out of date, they didn't check that it was all in the right place, they didn't check... And so when we do another rehearsal, we'll be rehearsing right now with BP... Absolutely. They were also shaping 400,000 deaths a year. You know, well, if you're doing that, you're really not a problem, and they're therefore, they're worrying about body back, we should be wearing my body at a worrying about preventing the need for...

1:12:52.2 Campbell: Absolutely, yeah. So I haven't heard of that. That's interesting, I didn't know about that

1:12:56.6 Davis: In... It's a lot. It came to Cabinet while I was there, it was interesting. In Cabana, I said MetroCard, Jeremy Hortense time Prime Minister minty. I'm trying to say that this is the biggest emergency or would be pre Curse of the biggest emerging in the country, left one the world, whatever face. What we need is a full cabin a meeting or nothing about this, and I would redo it all day capital to go through the details of how we make sure we're ready for it. Family, I still down a couple months later, the reason, but that's how serious we got to do it so that we are in a better position to find this... Done we move fast? Shutdown into natural travel, if we need to move like instantly, it just needs to be stopped, and the one bit of optimism like it, after the countries have been really successful at this other... It's Korea, Taiwan, what's the common denominator? They had had South or more before they've had a scare, and once they had the scale, you didn't have to log you very hard to say, We need to spend a few million on this special power, you be a few more million on this control system of airports we...

1:14:26.4 Davis: You spend a clearer... You're trying to Algerian to the treasure in Almere you to get lost, particularly if it's something speculate, this has happened. It won't be super

1:14:38.4 Campbell: Think that's an excellent point. I think that probably nearly a of time, I think, I think the technology is still with us... I want to ask you one more question. When we're talking about existential threats, I've got vague memories, I'm guessing mid-90s, were you involved in the Nuclear Proliferation limitation?

1:14:55.9 Davis: Yeah, the nuclear and the Test Ban Treaty. I do both of them. Why

1:15:01.3 Campbell: Not just... If you've played a part in that, then that is one extension that you have at least respond from humanity, and now we're talking about another one which I... Aland mic.

1:15:14.3 Davis: Let me tell you why, a little story to please, which is a demonstration that... Yes, successful. I know I was a failure as well, we've got the number fraction treaty in place. We've got a test ban treaty in place, where to one place in the world, which is most at risk from a nuclear challenge, it's the Indian contentions have gone, and why... Because you've got two nuclear powers are completely adjacent Andersen, and each of their capitals is intent country when you're foreigner, when the other guys are bout invader capital.

1:15:52.0 Campbell: That's that. Yeah, yeah, and... And I fail to get the test battery in place in time to prevent the advance of nuclear weapons in those two countries going to miss our status that...

1:16:13.2 Davis: Alright, Enid, Moray and Pakistan that they both responsible country in get lab, but if there was a risk place it was there... Why did I not sampled? I didn't ate because it didn't suit American Politics at the time, and I had a huge batholith them, and I won the argument, but too late, and that's often the case in these great political backers, you win the argument, may be too late for this time, but maybe not too late, the next time around, and that's a story which applies to nuclear weaponry, but it also applies through the Science of Parenting.

1:16:53.7 Campbell: Vendavo, we could talk for for days and assertive to talk again. Absolutely fascinating. I think, I'm not sure YouTube letters upload a video, this one book will certainly give it a go, but

1:17:05.9 Davis: Whatever you want, you can edit what you're like, Oh no, no, I wouldn't dream of editing it...

1:17:11.2 Campbell: That's for clever people. Gave it, I don't do that. So I'm gonna stop the recording now with profuse, thanks for this, and for the three people have watched it to all the end, I'm sure. Hopefully, it's interest. Totally. And men important. So

1:17:30.8 Davis: On these things, you worry... And I started down this argument on delight, well, you know, do I wanna be seen as a sort of member part of it for Lundberg, because clearly as the sort of reputation around supplements embryo, a good reputation, and I thought, Well, I could have to rely on the fact that most of my colleagues now understand now

1:18:02.4 Campbell: That I take fitness seriously, I'm 72 and I can still run, it's got five miles here.

Many Drs and MPs taking Vitamin D

1:18:11.6 Davis: We can on our weekend. That's very slow. Still 10 models. But I was like, No, I'm not going... Going into internet truth is, most of my colleagues are taking vitamin, most people I talk to, most the scientists, even the ones who are kept the PIM pretty sure. Jonathan bantamweight with the Chief Scientific Officer. We're now announces

1:18:50.1 Campbell: A risk benefit, and this... Isn't it why not? The risk is so low. Why not?

1:18:56.0 Davis: Why, if you think of the level of proof is being required by the establishment for video days and apply that same level of group to all of the policy made it the lock down hills.

1:19:16.4 Campbell: Peasant

1:19:18.9 Davis: Does both. It does both, in that respect, it's just like a very expensive drug, COPA lot of money, we'll have fatal effects for some people, we'll save others, where's the Vance?

1:19:32.4 Campbell: There's been nothing like the sort of evaluation you will do there, but... We don't know to this day, if you don't know. Whether it's almost taken as a acuminata, this work. But the actual evidence for it is limited, animus

1:19:48.0 Davis: In conflict, people about politics of it, but there is conflict evidence, for example, in keeping schools up, we never... Both ways on that, and I went through this over the summer, and it's really hard to know what actually works, 'cause in some countries have done anything in his work, something has done the same thing and it hasn't worked, and so many variables, it's what these confounding effects what we're talking about is... And so the cultural effects and so... So you just don't know, but... And the other problem, of course, the government cannot do nothing... I see. They can't do nothing, they have to have to be seen in some...

1:20:34.7 Campbell: Just stand there, do something that's... I don't do something just stand out is often the best thing to do, well.

1:20:43.3 Davis: It can be...

1:20:44.1 Campbell: You can do... You got to decide, which is which

1:20:50.2 Davis: One of my sports and flying, panicky actions can kill more than doing nothing, sometimes... I wouldn't recommend freezing, but if you just froze, you might be less harm and pulling back too hard or pushing forward to... So they were... Anyway, but I'm gonna let you get up

1:21:12.0 Campbell: And Redstone fascinating stuff. Do we could carry on researching this for a long, long time and... Well, let's...

1:21:24.6 Davis: Martino study is looking at 4080 and 3200 units. Reese

1:21:35.2 Campbell: Will know... Well, we're gonna know pretty good, but that was to... Is that matadors?

1:21:41.2 Davis: The one in premarital, Ayesha, that will give us a good indicator would be one day and he called over, study has been extended.

1:21:56.8 Campbell: It has, yeah, has her.

1:21:58.6 Davis: So all those things are dead, maybe we will do another thing if you want, because once we get through people who draw side relief and get on with their lives, when they said... When we get to the action, I think there's important. And if we can see and say, Well, we did tell you, this would save lives

1:22:24.4 Campbell: As we did, and

1:22:25.8 Davis: I would say... We will be able to calculate it. Yeah, I would have say over tens to thousands of lives in breathe told you that... And you didn't believe it. Now we're telling you, it will also work for flu and serious diseases and capable other disease is... And isn't it about time you did a proper State, proper public health action. How long it... At other ones. Talk on that. Yeah, I may just turn out to be the case at the public health.

1:23:01.4 Campbell: The public hearth of evolution. Yeah, fascinating concept you. David, thank you very much. I'm Gina. Stop this recording. I hope everything's work. Thank you. And we see, let's see if anyone watches this video, now we're sites

1:23:16.7 Davis: What reactions you get.

1:23:18.4 Campbell: You... We'll do. Thank you, David. Yeah. Alright, yeah, great, I'll be back on. So you say... Yeah, thank you.

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