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Prostate Cancer - interview of Dr. Holick by Baggerly - video and transcript Jan 2024

Diagnosis Prostate Cancer: An Interview with Dr. Michael Holick and Carole Baggerly

YouTube 48 minutes


(Actual Start at 0:00:13)
0:02:33.6 Carole: Welcome to one of our fantastic interviews with Dr Michael Holick. Dr. Holick today is gonna talk with us about prostate cancer and what he's done about it. Obviously, he's got it. So we need to know more about how he has been working with it and any advice he has for those that could benefit. So Dr. Holick, why don't you kick it off.

1 in 6 men get Prostate Cancer

0:03:03.8 MH: Thank you very much Carol. So first I'll give a little bit of perspective and then I'll share with you my journey and explain to your audience how to deal with the devastation of this cancer and the consequences of the treatment. But the most important message I think is, one in six men will get prostate cancer in their lifetime. It's estimated probably by the age of 80 every male will have some evidence for prostate cancer. 15% of men with prostate cancer will have the most devastating form based on what's called a Gleason score. And so what typically happens is, and I encourage all men, even by the age of 50, that they should be getting a routine yearly PSA, Prostate-Specific Antigen, because it's very stable and only if it begins to rise, you begin to worry that this could be due to prostate cancer.

Missed PSA testing due to COVID, then got PSA = 13?

0:04:14.7 MH: And so it's the best method to identify it early and intervene early because if you don't intervene early you'll have the consequences that I am now undergoing. So to begin, basically it was November of 2021. I had already Celebrated my 75th birthday. I was extremely happy, active, cycling 35 miles on the weekends, have gardening and then all of a sudden I went to my primary care doc and my father had prostate cancer, the benign form. And so I knew that I should be careful about this. But then COVID hit. Normally I was seeing my PCP every year getting my PSA and it's always been rock stable. So when COVID hit and I missed that appointment because it wasn't available I must admit I just didn't think immediately as soon as he was available again to get it done. And so it took a year and a half. In that time it turned out my PSA went from 2 up to 13.
0:05:28.1 MH: Now you would think that's not really a big deal. And indeed my good friend is a urologist. And he said to me after evaluating me and my prostate because normally if you have prostate cancer and you do a prostate exam you can feel kind of bumps on the prostate. But men also as they age their prostate gland hypertrophies, it gets bigger. And when it gets bigger, it makes more PSA. So after evaluating me, he said, "Holick, I don't think you have anything to worry about. You know it's a little bit bigger. You most likely have hypertrophy and the PSA totally explains it but let's do biopsy just to be sure." And so 22 biopsies were taken and all of them basically were involved.
0:06:22.5 Carole: Oh my God. Why so many?
0:06:23.2 MH: Why so many? Because you wanna really pick all of the areas on the gland because you don't wanna miss anything. What's ideal is that for men whose PSA is beginning to rise they should get this biopsy because if they only find a tiny amount in one little area, you can radiate that area. There's all kinds of things that can be done. It's called stage one prostate cancer. But if you let it go, this is a true monster in your body and it will eat you alive. And what they do is when they take the biopsy, they look at the cancer cells and they wanna see are they kind of slowly growing or are they super aggressive, what's called anaplastic. And those that are anaplastic, grow like crazy.

Biopsies and MRI showed that it was there and spreading

0:07:17.8 MH: So I have a Gleason score of nine. The highest is 10 meaning that it's the most aggressive in the sense that it will continue to grow in your prostate, take over your prostate gland and then begin to move out. And it desires to be everywhere in your body, especially in your bone. So after having the biopsies, my urologist called me back frantic telling me that, yeah, not only do I have prostate cancer but it's Gleason score nine and that almost all the biopsies were positive. So immediately I had an MRI to find out where the cancer was in my prostate and was it extending out. And sure enough, it was already growing out into the nerve bundle. So by definition stage one and two, the prostate cancer is within the gland and so having surgery for example can be curable. But stage three, now it's extended out and you have no idea where it's gone.
0:08:31.4 Carole: Wow.
0:08:31.5 MH: And so I then had what's called a PET scan. And what a PET scan does is it can light up any area of increased activity. So they looked at my lymph nodes and they looked at the whole area and happily they did not see anything in my bones and did not see anything in my lymph nodes. It doesn't mean that it's not there but at least it wasn't there in any significant way. So then of course, you have to figure out what to do. So I'm a doc, I'm an endocrinologist and I've seen lots of patients with prostate cancer. And so now I'm a patient. And...
0:09:14.6 Carole: That must be a really unique experience.
0:09:18.9 MH: Right, it is. And so the first thing is to get the diagnosis. I mean when you hear for the first time that you have cancer even if it's a more benign cancer, your whole life just kind of, at least for me, stopped and I began to realize that I'm mortal, right? And this monster inside me wants me. And so I'm gonna do everything in my power to prevent that monster from really destroying my body. I knew what was coming next. So I immediately got to see a surgeon because that's an option is to have your prostate gland taken out. The thinking being that if you debulk the area so you take out the prostate, so most of the cancer is gone but we know that it's already extended out and we don't know where. And so you can definitely have that. And it was suggested to me that typically they don't do that over the age of about 70 years but they saw that I was very vigorous and healthy. So they said they would definitely consider surgery for me. And then I met my oncologist.
0:10:34.1 Carol: What does it mean that they don't do that over the age of 70 or so? Tell me what is going on there.
0:10:40.4 MH: Well, what's going on here is that often by this time men can have respiratory issues, they may have more serious complications from the surgery than what the surgery is worth.
0:10:54.0 Carol: Oh okay.
0:10:54.6 MH: And so and that they have a much harder time recovering. And they have severe incontinence and a lot of other issues including severe erectile dysfunction. So as a result typically they don't do surgery after 70 years but they were willing to do it for me. And then I met my oncologist. And what was really amazing and she was my good friend at Boston Medical Center, as soon as I entered her office she looks at me and she says, "Holick, this is curable." Now I was pretty sure that it's not, okay? But to hear that was just such a relief, right? And then I met and then I went over to Dana-Farber because I was a Boston medical center doc so it was probably not appropriate to be at my medical center. And I went to Dana-Farber which is a superb cancer center. And Alicia Morgans is my oncologist. And it turns out that she's published in this area.
0:12:04.3 MH: And she of course provided me with all the literature on what the consequences are of the surgery when you have stage three and the medication that you're gonna be on. I already knew that since it was not contained within my prostate, if they took my prostate out, I'm still gonna have cancer in the nerve bundle and maybe in my lymph nodes. So even if they took it out, I would still have to get radiation therapy and chemotherapy. So I decided that to me what made the most sense is to go the route of having androgen deprivation therapy which I'll explain in a minute along with radiation therapy and then what we call brachytherapy. B-R-A-C-H-Y therapy. And I'll explain in a minute a little bit about this. And by the way for your listeners if you want more information on my Facebook just Dr. Michael Holick. I'm now sharing my journey from the day I received this diagnosis and how I've been dealing with all of the issues.
0:13:19.8 MH: And so I'm right now at the chapter 15 and chapter 16 will be on probably by tomorrow. And so I knew I'm in trouble because I knew that what's gonna happen is they're gonna put me on medications that prevent me from making testosterone. And my oncologist told me and I knew what the consequence was because I had seen a lot of men with prostate cancer to help them for their bone health which we can talk about a little while later and what the consequences are of having no testosterone. Because I'm an endocrinologist. I saw a lot of men with hypogonadism, right? Low testosterone. Well, when you have no testosterone your muscles begin to just become flabby. You become very kind of weak. You wind up becoming listless, meaning that you really just get up in the morning and you really don't wanna do anything.
0:14:21.6 MH: You wanna become a couch potato. Basically it changes your body habitus so that you wind up with a big fat belly. You wind up with gynecomastia, so that you actually develop breast. But for a male there's something else that happens which is absolutely devastating. And I was told this but I already knew the answer which was, "Holick, when you're on androgen deprivation therapy," meaning you have no ability to make testosterone or androgens in your adrenal glands and I'll explain some of the medications for this in a minute is that your testes will become pea-sized by the time you complete your treatment. No male wants to hear that. And that there's a good chance that your penis is gonna shrink in size. Again not something any male wants to hear about and of course severe erectile dysfunction. So January 1, 2022 as I'm gonna be seeing my oncologist in two weeks I immediately start to intervene. 'Cause when you have no testosterone you don't just wake up one day fat and flabby, right? That happens over time. And so I decided to intervene and I intervened by making my New Year's resolution for 2023 is to walk five miles every day and to increase my personal training, weight training, from once a week to twice a week.
0:16:11.9 MH: And then I wound up seeing my oncologist and gave me Lupron. Lupron is a drug that actually initially stimulates the brain to make FSH and LH to actually increase the production of testosterone. But when it's around for a long time, it was learned a long time ago, that Lupron will then cause the brain basically, your hypothalamus to say I've seen enough of you and I don't wanna see any more of you. And so as a result you become resistant to its positive effect and now it has a negative effect and it shuts down the ability of your pituitary gland to make follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. These are hormones that are critically important for maintaining estrogen production in women and testosterone production in men. But my oncologist told me that something else you have to be concerned about which is that your adrenal glands which make cortisol, that if you get stressed you make more cortisol to help make you feel better, it gets your liver to make some released glucose and it keeps you going saying that you can't have your adrenal glands making androgens because it'll feed your prostate cancer cells in your body. And so they put me on a medication called Abiraterone. And this medication is supposed to directly inhibit androgen production in your adrenal glands but not have any effects...
0:18:17.8 MH: So effect androgen production in your adrenal glands but have no effect on cortisol production. So it sounds like an ideal drug. And so they put me on it. And so now a couple of months later, by 3, 4 o'clock in the afternoon I was really feeling excessively tired. They had put me automatically on prednisone, 5mg in the morning, presumably because they said, well, if it has any effect on your cortisol, that this will take care of it. Well, being an endocrinologist, typically if you wanna check your adrenal function what you need to do is to get an 8:00 AM cortisol. The reason being that the body wakes you up at around 3, 4 o'clock in the morning your pituitary gland starts making adrenocorticotropic hormone. It goes to your adrenal glands to now make cortisol so that when you wake up in the morning you're raring to go. Your tank is full and you're ready to go. And I was feeling so exhausted in the afternoon and I realized that prednisone when you take it in the morning like at 5:00 in the morning or some time up early, it has a half-life of three to four hours.
So by the time you reach you 5 o'clock in the afternoon, you have zero ability. You have no adrenal function. And so I realized, I was not assuming, that I was adrenally insufficient.
0:20:02.1 MH: And so that was a major complication. So I went on 2.5mg of prednisone in the afternoon. Being a doc, knowing that, because that's how you treat, Addison's disease, what president Kennedy had, is it's 10mg of hydrocortisone in the morning and 5mg in the afternoon. The problem is this medication causes insulin resistance, wound up with Type II diabetes. Alright. So now they said that we have to give you radiation therapy, but we want your prostate gland to shrink by about 50% and it should do so being on Abiraterone and on Lupron. And so they waited three months and initiated radiation therapy. It's what's called image guided radiation therapy, which is really important. And I underwent 28 treatments. So I would go every day, five days a week. Now, the problem with radiation therapy and they give you this long list of complications, is that it can cause gastrointestinal bleeding.
0:21:21.3 MH: It can cause GI upset and pain in your colon. It can affect the peroneal area because it could burn your skin potentially. And so what they do is they put you on what's called MiraLax, which I think people who have constipation know it well, it's a resin. And I had to take two tablespoons a day in like 16 ounces of water. And what it does is that it stays in your colon and it absorbs water so that it makes the stool very loose. And that's important because you wanna evacuate and have your colon flat as you're beginning to get irradiated. The second point is...
0:22:16.6 Carol: Michael, I would like to interject something here.
0:22:26.3 MH: Sure.
0:22:26.4 Carole: And you can set it aside for discussion later. But one of the things that you mentioned way early on was they, excuse me, they don't do the surgery with people over 70 way up at the beginning of your talk, right?
0:22:40.6 MH: Yep.
0:22:41.1 Carole: Leo, my husband is 95. Okay.
0:22:45.4 MH: And?
0:22:46.4 Carole: And much of what you have done has been prescribed to him without the knowledge base. I mean, he's a brilliant man, but he does not have endocrinology knowledge nor does he have doctors like that. And there are some really big side effects of therapeutic things he's been on. And the thing that just totally grabbed me was about the muscles.
0:23:20.7 MH: Yep.
0:23:21.7 Carole: We had a very reasonably active, physically active man who went from being quite active to almost not being able to get up out of a chair.
0:23:32.7 MH: Right.
0:23:33.1 Carole: And except for physical therapy treatment, there really was not any mention one way or another of the drugs that this man was taking affecting his muscles.
0:23:46.0 MH: Wow.
0:23:46.8 Carole: So I am wanting to incorporate some, maybe they don't generally do these things with people over 70, but it's possible in some cases they do. And these need to be looked at, kind of like in parallel to see, well, if you're 90 and have this done, what are the possibilities? Because people are living longer and people are reasonably healthy. And anyway, so thank you for listening to this part, but I really appreciate your talk and I want to interject some pictures or something of side effects of very different ages.
0:24:30.1 MH: Yeah. But these side effects will affect a 50-year-old, just like a 90-year-old.
0:24:38.4 Carole: Yeah.
0:24:38.9 MH: And like I said, what I did, because just thinking, is you don't wake up one day hypogonadal and having no muscle function.
0:24:47.6 Carole: Oh yeah.
0:24:49.1 MH: And so if you use it, you won't lose it. And that's why I was so aggressive in intervening and walking every day at least five miles every day and lifting weights, twice a week.
0:25:03.8 Carole: But you knew to do that.
0:25:07.9 MH: Right, exactly.
0:25:08.8 Carole: You knew to do that. And my husband did not know to do that.
0:25:10.7 MH: Right. And nor was told to do that.
0:25:13.9 Carole: Right.
0:25:14.8 MH: This is all because of my thinking and my experience in this area.
0:25:21.2 Carole: Fantastic. Carry on.

28th Radiation therapy session

0:25:23.3 MH: Yeah. So, now I'm getting radiation therapy. And so the other issue is that, the radiation's gonna hit your bladder and so it can cause bladder bleeding and cause all kinds of problems. And so what they recommend you do is that you have to drink 16 ounces of water before radiation therapy because you would think if you drank a lot of water that your bladder would go down. No, it goes up. And so it gets out of the space where the radiation's hitting your lymph nodes and your prostate gland. So now I decided, okay, I'm gonna now walk minimum five up to 10 miles before I got my radiation therapy. So I got in there at around 4:30, 5 o'clock in the morning and I walked for about two and a half to three hours and then immediately evacuated because I have now all of that MiraLax and soft stool. And walking so much stimulates your colon. And so it was really effective. And so I totally collapsed my colon. I drank 32 ounces of water to be sure that I was totally hydrated. And so five days a week, 28 sessions, every week they would stop at the end of my session and say, "So how are you feeling? Are you having any gastrointestinal bleeding? Are you having any pains?" And I said, "I've been feeling fine.”

Brachytherapy (place radioactive materal in the body)

0:26:56.9 MH: And so after my 28th session, they sat me down again and asked me the same questions. And so then I said to them, "I've not had any side effects." I said, "Are you sure you turned the machine on?" And they said, "Oh, don't you know, your insurance company doesn't cover that. You have to pay extra." [chuckle] But the message is I just won't let that monster in me ruin me and you have to intervene at every level. So now I knew the next thing that's up is what's called brachytherapy. And what brachytherapy is, and this is done for both breast cancer patients and other cancer patients and prostate cancer patients, is what they do is that they will put these little tubes into your prostate gland and then they put in super high radioactive material and keep it there for about 10 minutes to blast your prostate so that if there were any cells left, because cells that are rapidly growing are more sensitive to radiation, that is the concept.

Improved diet: lost 10 pounds, lost diabetes

0:28:16.4 MH: And if you go back and look at the literature, which I read very carefully by the radiologist, by the radio oncologist, that was my doc, is that brachytherapy with less radiation therapy was more effective in five-year survival than having 35 or 40 radiation therapies. And so that was why I went along with it and again, I prepared myself for this and again, had no complications from it. Alright. So now I have diabetes and typically, normally I've never had diabetes, but it's a strong family history. And so I'm on the two doses, 5mg in the morning, 2.5 in the afternoon. I knew I couldn't stay on it, so I had to stop. And then I weighed 164 pounds, which is not that much, I guess for me, 5'10". But I knew I had to lose weight. I knew that I had to just absolutely remove cakes and muffins and everything from my diet.
0:29:25.4 Carole: Oh, those great things?
0:29:27.6 MH: Yeah. And I did it instantly, you just have to be focused. And I did, I immediately stopped and I wound up, instead of having lunch with some kind of a sandwich or whatever, is only wild caught smoked salmon with a... Yeah. And within about three months I lost 10 pounds and my diabetes no longer exists, so I no longer have diabetes. Okay. So now the new problem arises, which is that I was concerned that now that I've had these treatments and the Lupron is going to continue for up to two years. And I was told, and I knew it, is that if you've been on Lupron for that longer time and your brain has been shut off with that much time, it can take years if ever for your testosterone to come back. Again, no one wants to hear that. So it turns out that Lupron, when they inject it into you and it lasts for three months, it's really in your body for a much longer period of time. And so I told my oncologist, I said that there's an oral medication that is an antagonist to the GnRH receptor in the hypothalamus. Just like what Lupron is doing. But this medication you take orally every day because it only lasts for a day. It's called relugolix and...
0:31:14.1 Carole: Can you spell it please, Michael.
0:31:18.7 MH: So R-E-L-U-G-I-X, I believe, relugolix.
0:31:24.9 Carole: Okay.

Relugolix daily ($1,000 pill if no insurance) body temperature drop by 10 degrees

0:31:28.0 MH: And by the way, just to tell your listeners, have good insurance. The Abiraterone, I have to, I take that in the morning. It has to be taken like at 1, 2 o'clock in the morning. You can't have it around with a meal. So you have to have it at least an hour or two before you eat. I take four of them every night. I get up at around 1:30 in the morning. Each one costs $100. Okay. That's nothing. The relugolix, I asked, 'cause I called up my insurance company, I was just curious. It's almost a $1,000 for a pill. So I, every day am taking about $1,400 worth of medications every day. And my copay is $8 for the Abiraterone and $85 for the relugolix. So I couldn't afford it otherwise, and a lot of men can't and that's really unfortunate. But the problem that I wounded up having, which is strange, and I don't know if anybody else has experienced this, but I would have a dinner and my body temperature would drop by 10 degrees. I was so cold that there was absolutely nothing I could do to warm up my body. I would have like five blankets on. My wife would be worried about me thinking of actually having 911 call to get me to the hospital.

Up to 20 Hot flashes a day

0:33:06.8 MH: And I start thinking about this. I mean, I never had this for the past one and a half years, but now I all of a sudden have it. And so it's likely that the relugolix which is only supposed to have one effect on your brain, may very well be having an effect on my temperature sensor in my brain, and I can't control my body temperature. In the meantime, I forgot to mention one of the other major side effects for women with going into menopause and having no hormone, estrogen or men who have no testosterone can get severe hot flashes. I was getting up to 20 a day, and they are vicious. Your whole body is in a sweat. Your underclothes are wet and it sucks the energy out of you. And again, being a doc and a scientist, I wasn't willing to accept this. So I went on the internet, just curious.

Cool Cuff. substantially diminishes his hot flashes

0:34:08.4 MH: And out of the blue, I see this device called Cool Cuff. And what it does is when you turn it on, there's a porcelain piece in the center. It goes down to 47 degrees. And what it does is it tells your brain, you are not hot, you're cool, and it shuts it off. And so my typical fashion, I decided, well, it works for me, I would love for it to work for others. And so I started a clinical trial. And so for your listeners, the good news is because trying to recruit can sometimes be difficult is that I got permission from my IRB now to recruit virtually so that I can actually virtually consent them no matter where they are in the United States. And I can then send them the devices and be in constant contact with them. But all I can tell you is, for me, it works incredibly well. It costs about $200, it's worth it. And it doesn't completely shut them off, but it will diminish them substantially.

Capsaicin also reduced hot flashes

0:35:18.0 MH: And anybody who's had a hot flash will know when you begin to just feel it coming on, don't let it start because it's like taking a match and just lighting it and then throwing the match into a gasoline tank. Once that happens, you can't control it. And so if you could catch it immediately, it makes a big difference. So now, what to do about feeling severely cold in the evening? I mean that I never, I had no clue. And I went on the internet, nobody ever really heard about this. I'll bet you though, others feel it. So all of a sudden, a week later or after a couple of weeks, all of a sudden I no longer had it. And then a week later it came back. So now I'm thinking, well, what happened that week before where it was controlled? And it turned out that my wife made chili and chili contains capsaicin which is a compound that affects your pee receptors. And they have long range effects. And sure enough, if I now have my lunch, every lunch is chili with capsaicin in it. I went on the internet to think about buying capsaicin as pills, but when you read about it, they have major side effects, kind of major GI side effects and other issues by taking too much at one time. But having chili, A, it's good for my blood glucose because it's beans, right? And it worked, for me at least, it works incredibly well. I no longer have my body temperature dropping in the evening.
0:37:17.5 Carole: Wow.

Taking up running - going to enter the Boston Marathon

0:37:18.2 MH: So now I wanted to take it up one more notch and I decided to really encourage men and women with cancer who really just like your husband, is just falling apart, right? I decided I'm gonna run the Boston Marathon next year. I never have run in my life. And my New Year's resolution for 2023 is to run the Boston Marathon next year. And so I started, like I said, never ran in my life. So I ran eighth of a mile. I thought it was great. Then a mile, that was great. And I kept increasing my distance. By April, I ran 13 and a half miles. And by Memorial weekend I ran 20 miles, I'm sorry, 25 miles in under, little under six hours. So now I had to be able to get a bib to run the Boston Marathon. And they're not easy to get. And there's a lot of charities associated with the Boston Athletic Association. So I applied to various ones and I applied to what's called the 26.2 Foundation.
0:38:38.0 MH: It was founded by former marathon winners. And this group encourages marathoning for children and adults running any kind of activity for your health, both your physical and mental health. They had over, I don't know how many applicants, but I told them my story and I told them that I'm happy to try to raise money right for the bib, but more importantly, I wanna be an inspiration. If I can do this, anyone can do this. I'm gonna be 78 years old when I run it on April 15. I'm now in training. So I run about now easily, I could easily go out and I feel great and run five miles. And on the weekend I run about 10 to 15 miles and will continue to increase the distance.
But what I really need is to increase my speed, right? And so I was doing like a 15-minute mile initially. I'm now down to about 14-minute mile. And my goal is around 13 or 13 and a half minute mile for the whole 26.2 miles of the Boston Marathon.
0:39:57.4 Carole: Alright. I think it's marvelous. The story that you have told is so filled with information that can be just kinda taken apart by you and by other scientifically oriented people to look at much bigger population. Your capsaicin comment was also... I had read about chili peppers.
I have an allergy issue and having this particular spice in what I was eating is the only thing over a
course of more than five years that's addressed the nasal passages in such a way that they stop dripping.
0:40:43.3 MH: Wow, nice. So I'm going to leave you with one more thought about this.
0:40:48.0 Carole: Yes, please.

Prostate Cancer medicines ==> increased risk of suicide by 4X if live alone

0:40:48.6 MH: This is potentially the most serious complication of these medications, at least for men with prostate cancer and probably for others as well. It's well documented that men with prostate cancer have a four times higher risk of suicide. And these medications play in your head. I mean, they can really kind of make it clear to you that the easy way out is just to go to the bright light. And that's it. And so I have as one of my chapters explaining about this issue, and it's an important one for people to realize.
0:41:41.5 Carole: It's extremely important. It's extremely important not just for that person, but for their caregivers.
0:41:47.7 MH: Right. And what's most important is we know that men who have no family, that live alone, are more likely to do this. And so it's incredibly important for families who have a loved one; brother, husband, grandfather with prostate cancer, to be in closer touch and to be sure that everything is well with your loved one. And on the opposite side is, it's really important but presumably very difficult for anyone to admit that they've been thinking about this. But incredibly important. If you don't want to talk to your provider, your primary care doc, talk to your family, because just releasing it from you can make all the difference in the world and really give you clarity. That just makes no sense at all.
0:42:50.3 Carole: Yes. I think the no sense at all is also important. I mean, there are people who get these terrible thoughts and they may or may not try to hide them, but the very fact that they are not necessarily caused by somebody being unkind to them or by circumstances that they might dream up. And if back again to the caregiver, whether it be a family person or a medical person or whatever, realizes that solving the problem isn't necessarily addressing directly what the subject of the concern is.
0:43:31.2 MH: Right. And it also turns out...
0:43:33.3 Carole: Beautiful. This is beautiful. Well, I know that... Anyway, carry on.
0:43:40.1 MH: If it's okay, is just one more piece about the suicide.
0:43:45.5 Carole: Please.
0:43:46.6 MH: Which is, that there's what's called suicide ideation, which means that people are having ideas of suicide.
0:43:58.9 Carole: Yes.
0:44:00.8 MH: That's an important group, but the more important group, about a third of patients that commit suicide is due actually to intent. It's one thing to think about it, but it's another thing to have the intent to do it. And those are the individuals that are the ones that ultimately you need to focus on. And those are the ones often that are unwilling to seek advice or to explain themselves because they've already decided, "I intend to do this." And so, again, incredibly important for anyone with this terrible disease, talk to family. They'll listen to you, right? And make sure that your family members are aware of this and talk to you.
0:45:00.8 Carole: And give everybody a good hug.
0:45:02.3 MH: No question. It makes a very... I mean, I've been blessed. I celebrated my 51st wedding anniversary with my beautiful, wonderful wife and she's been incredible. Because, like I said, I was becoming a zombie at night. I couldn't function. I mean, it was to the point where you're standing, you know that you have to go someplace and you can't move. And Sally would be there say, okay, "Move! Move!". Or when it came time, where I was so cold that I was really hypothermic is that she would come to my aid. And so I've been totally blessed and really happy to share all of this. And like I said, it's on my facebook, all these chapters is to really help men with prostate cancer, but also women with breast cancer, they go through the same thing.
0:46:03.7 Carole: And please, please put the word in your book or your whatever about caregivers. All of these people who need care are getting it somehow or not and the more knowledge that can be expended out there to share how to help these people is really important.
0:46:21.1 MH: Yeah and I think I had mentioned to you and I have a flyer now that if people are interested in wanting to support my run to be part of the family of donors, I'd be most grateful and I think you have the URL.
0:46:38.5 Carole: We will post that on the Grassroots Health website, Michael. Very shortly, very shortly so people can...
0:46:41.0 MH: I appreciate that. And now I have a new goal for running the Boston Marathon and it's in the honor of my brother who at 75 passed away with colon cancer just a couple weeks ago.
0:46:56.4 Carole: I am so sorry. Yes.
0:46:57.4 MH: Yeah. Yeah. Cancer is not your friend. I mean it is...
0:47:03.3 Carole: I've already been through that decision.
0:47:06.1 MH: It's a monster and it literally wants to eat you alive and it will do so. But you need to be aggressive against it in any way shape or form.
0:47:17.8 Carole: Well, both to tackle it when you've got it but at the same time very aggressive in preventing it to the extent that you can.
0:47:30.5 MH: Or at least making sure that you get colonoscopy at least once every five years and they find polyps should be even more soon than that. Men like I said by the age of 45 or 50 they should start having routine PSAs and don't ever ever stop. It was only COVID that did me in. I because I was religious in seeing my primary care doc so even though I'm a doc I never want to play doctor for myself and so I was very happy to see my primary care doc. Yeah.
0:48:06.3 Carole: Sure. Well, Michael I want to invite all of the people that see this to send queries to carol at grassrootshealth.org and we will respond to the queries most likely with certainly we get the information but we want to know what you've asked and we want to share that with everybody and then obviously with Dr. Holick because once you see more, I'm sure you've already seen thousands of people responding to your information but this is a goldmine and throughout all of the whole vitamin D work that I've done ever since I met you back in 2008, there's always this goldmine sitting there and doing things not just sitting there, so that is so appreciated Michael.
0:49:00.0 MH: My pleasure, yeah it's my pleasure. I mean I thoroughly enjoyed our first meeting in Boston.
0:49:04.4 Carole: That was a while ago.
0:49:05.5 MH: It was a while ago and you know and our friendship has continued and you've done incredible things to help the health and welfare of people you know globally and some of the time we could probably talk a little bit more about vitamin D.
0:49:22.5 Carole: Oh, of course. But not today.
0:49:29.8 MH: That's exactly right. Yeah. This has to be just focused on have a diagnosis, you need to intervene as soon as possible. Don't become fat and flabby.
0:49:41.3 Carole: And there are things you can do. There are, I just, people need to have confidence that there are things to do.
0:49:49.5 MH: Yeah, most definitely. I've been on a webinar for Dana-Farber and the Telethon for them and I've gotten back like you said I have over now I think 9,000 or 10,000 followers on my Facebook and I'm getting emails from daughters with fathers with prostate cancer, they care to say get off your desk and get going. If Holick can do it, you can do it.
0:50:16.1 Carole: Well, Michael thank you for today and we will get this published very quickly and get the chain started with great feedback that helps people help themselves. Thank you so much again.
0:50:33.0 MH: Happy New Year.
0:50:34.1 Carole: Thank you very much and you. [chuckle]
0:50:35.8 MH: Bye-bye.
0:50:38.2 Carole: Bye-bye.

His ongoing diary on Facebook

Vitamin D ha been use to reduce hot flahes, prevent Protate Cancer, etc.

See also Prostate Cancer in VitaminDWiki

All items in category Prostate Cancer and Vitamin D 101 items


The Meta-analysis of Prostate Cancer

Vitamin D prevents/treats Prostate Cancer much better when there is not excess Calcium
Prostate cancer risk increase with Vitamin D (other studies disagree) – meta-analysis Jan 2018 prevention
Prostate cancer reduced when 4000 IU vitamin D was added– Hollis RCT April 2015 treatment
7X increase in stage IV Prostate Cancer survival when vitamin D greater than 32 ng – May 2013
Never too late to have vitamin D - loading dose is great before Prostate Surgery

PSA RCT problems - 2014

PSA RCT are deeply flawed by PSA discoverer, NYT Nov 2014
He is also the author of" "The Great Prostate Hoax: How Big Medicine Hijacked the PSA Test and Caused a Public Health Disaster" March 2014

More recently:
1) The Rise and Fall of the Prostate Cancer Scam - 2020 contains
"PSA screening was found by the Preventive Task Force of the U.S. Federal government to cause more harm than good. "
2) Preventive Task Force

52+ VitaminDWiki pages have HOLICK in the title

This list is automatically updated

Items found: 55
Title Modified
Dr. Holick interview with transcript - May 2024 05 May, 2024
Podcast by Dr. Holick on vitamin D - Feb 2011 05 May, 2024
Prostate Cancer - interview of Dr. Holick by Baggerly - video and transcript Jan 2024 05 May, 2024
Should You Take A Vitamin D Supplement - Dr Holick transcript Oct 2022 28 Nov, 2023
Vitamin D: 100 year anniversary of discovery – Holick Jan 2023 23 Jan, 2023
Vitamin D and neurocognitive function – Holick April 2014 21 Oct, 2022
Vitamin D and neurocognitive function – Holick Oct 2022 21 Oct, 2022
How Sensible Sun Exposure Benefits Your Health -Holick interview May 2022 30 May, 2022
UV, sunshine, and vitamin D (87 charts) - Holick March 2013 11 Jan, 2022
Vitamin D and COVID-19: a narrative review - Holick - Jan 4, 2022 10 Jan, 2022
Low Vitamin D in infants - video interview of Dr. Holick - May 2017 11 Dec, 2021
Hospital has banned Dr. Holick due to testifying in cases of infants with broken bones- August, 2021 03 Aug, 2021
Vitamin D Is Not as Toxic as Was Once Thought – Holick May 2015 20 Mar, 2021
Vitamin D, Zinc, etc. look promising for COVID-19 (Holick) - Jan 25, 2021 28 Jan, 2021
A call to action: Vitamin D for hip fracture (50,000 weekly for 8 weeks, then bi-weekly – Holick July 2020 11 Dec, 2020
Rate of COVID-19 test positive is 40 pcnt lower if high vitamin D (192,000 people) - Holick Sept 2020 17 Sep, 2020
Immunologic Effects of Vitamin D on Human Health and Disease - Holick July 2020 15 Jul, 2020
The vitamin D deficiency pandemic – Holick May 2017 21 Jan, 2020
Call to action – more Vitamin D for pregnancies, loading doses are OK – Holick Aug 2019 25 Jun, 2019
Diagnosis and treatment of osteopenia – Holick 2010 10 Dec, 2018
Photobiology of Vitamin D – free chapter in book – Holick 2010 17 Nov, 2018
Kaiser Health News wrote a damning article about Dr. Holick and Vitamin D, NYT published it – Aug 2018 20 Aug, 2018
Vitamin D - at least 4,000 IU to achieve 40-60 ng and reduce risk of early death – Holick June 2018 04 Jun, 2018
Role of Vitamin D in the Pathogenesis of Diabetes – Holick July 2017 16 Jul, 2017
The risks and benefits of sun exposure – Holick Oct 2016 05 Jan, 2017
Vitamin D presentation by Dr. Holick Spring 2012 08 Mar, 2016
Holick interview by Mercola on Vitamin D – Dec 2015 17 Jan, 2016
Major review of Vitamin D – Holick Feb 2013 27 Dec, 2015
Vitamin D Global Perspective - Holick June 2013 27 Dec, 2015
Dr. Holick video on vitamin D - March 2013 27 Dec, 2015
Vitamin D from 1940 and into the future – Holick video Nov 2013 28 Nov, 2015
Vitamin D review – Holick Jan 2013 24 Sep, 2015
Go ahead, soak up some sun (but don’t burn) – Holick July 2015 01 Aug, 2015
Chicago Sun Times on vitamin D: Depression, chest pain, fibromyalgia, Holick, 3000 IU without test - May 2010 15 Jul, 2015
Chicago Times on vitamin D: Depression, chest pain, fibromyalgia, Holick, 3000 IU without test - May 2010 15 Jul, 2015
Live Longer with Vitamin D - Holick March 2015 17 May, 2015
Sunlight and Your Health: An EnLIGHTening Perspective - Holick Video Dec 2014 14 Mar, 2015
Less sun means more disease -Grant, Holick, Cannell, et al Feb 2015 05 Mar, 2015
Cancer, Sunlight, and Vitamin D - Holick Oct 2014 06 Oct, 2014
Environmental factors that influence the cutaneous production of vitamin D – Holick 1995 06 Jan, 2014
If You're Low in This Nutrient, It Doubles Your Odds of Many Cancers– Interview Dr. Holick Oct 2013 23 Dec, 2013
Patent application for a skin cream which enhances production of vitamin D – Holick July 2013 24 Nov, 2013
Vitamin D update – Holick Sept 2013 11 Nov, 2013
Vitamin D, Sunlight and Cancer Connection – Holick Jan 2013 11 Aug, 2013
Vitamin D encyc. - 2nd edition, Holick - April 2013 02 Mar, 2013
Major review of Vitamin D – Holick 2013 part II 08 Feb, 2013
Vitamin D: A D-Lightful Vitamin for Health – Holick Dec 2012 07 Jan, 2013
Evidence for vitamin D – Holick June 2012 23 Nov, 2012
Michael Holick – reduce health care costs 25 percent – interview Sept 2010 07 Oct, 2012
High Prevalence of Vitamin D Inadequacy - Holick Mayo Clinic 2006 14 May, 2012
Professional book on Vitamin D - Editor Holick 2010 27 Aug, 2011
Vitamin D Holick – Jan 2011 29 Mar, 2011
Vitamin D is essential to the modern indoor lifestyle – interview Holick Oct 2010 09 Oct, 2010
Interview of pioneer in Vitamin D research - Holick LEF Sept 2010 08 Sep, 2010

39+ VitaminDWiki pages have Baggerly OR GRH OR GRASSROOTS in the title

This list is automatically updated

Items found: 39
Title Modified
Prostate Cancer - interview of Dr. Holick by Baggerly - video and transcript Jan 2024 05 May, 2024
Vitamin D math mistakes made by the IoM in 2010 – K Baggerly 2016-2017 03 Dec, 2023
7 Factors that Make People Likely to be Magnesium Deficient - GRH Oct 2023 16 Oct, 2023
Periodontal Disease and Vitamin D - interview and transcript - GRH, Grant July 2023 02 Aug, 2023
increased Periodontal Disease risk if low Vitamin D, Magnesium, Omega-3 - GRH March 2023 20 Mar, 2023
Co-factors increase Vitamin D response for the GRH cohort - Jan 2023 21 Jan, 2023
Moving Vitamin D Research into Practice - Video and transcript - Baggerly - Oct 2021 12 Oct, 2022
Vitamin D associated with reduced COVID-19 risks in children - Grassroots Nov 2020 31 Aug, 2022
Grassroots Health publications, charts, accomplishments: 2007-2022 28 Jul, 2022
COVID-19 risk reduction by Vitamin D, etc. - Grassroots Health Nov 29, 2021 30 Nov, 2021
Vitamin D videos at Grassroots Health 02 Apr, 2021
How Vitamin D Helps Fight COVID-19 - Grassroots Health Oct 2020 02 Oct, 2020
Response to Vitamin D increased if take Magnesium and Vitamin K2 – Grassroots March 2020 10 Mar, 2020
Omega-3 index study by Grassroots Health – Nov 2019 21 Nov, 2019
Magnesium, Vitamin D, Omega-3, TSH - importance and testing - Dean and Baggerly - Oct 2019 30 Oct, 2019
T1 Diabetes reduction by high Omega-3 and Vitamin D – GRH ongoing observation 12 Sep, 2019
The Top 5 Things to Know About Vitamin D - Grassroots July 2019 15 Jul, 2019
Dr. Sears podcast with Carole Baggerly about Vitamin D (with transcript) - July 2019 05 Jul, 2019
Common problems with Vitamin D clinical trials – Grassroots Health – 2019 19 Mar, 2019
Supplements taken by US Adults, Grassroots Health – March 2019 19 Mar, 2019
Magnesium types taken by Grassroots Health participants – March 2019 08 Mar, 2019
2 month response time to Vitamin D (Grassroots Health) 08 Dec, 2018
Omega-3 index - good level needed 2.4 grams of regular Omega-3 - Grassroots Nov 2018 28 Nov, 2018
Vitamin D improves health in many ways - Interview of Baggerly by Mercola - Aug 2018 08 Aug, 2018
Pregnancy problems reduced by Vitamin D - Grassroots Health 2015 02 Mar, 2017
Vitamin D Webinar - cost of pre-term birth etc- Baggerly Nov 2013 11 Dec, 2016
Response to Vitamin D - Grassroots 01 Sep, 2016
Chart of Vitamin D levels vs disease - Grassroots Health June 2013 29 Jun, 2016
Grassroots Health participants Vitamin D vs age, intake, and resulting level – Sept 2013 29 Jun, 2016
Vitamin D is being used to prevent premature births – Baggerly interview – Dec 2015 18 Dec, 2015
Vitamin D Workshop notes – Baggerly April 2015 30 Apr, 2015
How the Baggerlys got interested in Vitamin D and then started GrassRootsHealth – April 2013 04 Mar, 2014
Vitamin D Webinar - Baggerly Nov 2013 12 Jan, 2014
Vitamin D supplementation - Grassroots Jan 2013 07 Sep, 2013
Vitamin D Might Be Able to Slash Your Breast Cancer Risk by 90 Percent - Baggerly, Mercola: May 2013 08 Jul, 2013
Interview of C Baggerly about IoM Dec 1 2010 12 Dec, 2010
Grassroots PDF and video updates May and June 2010 17 May, 2010
Diseases vs vitamin D Garland Baggerly 2009 31 Mar, 2010
Grassroots Files 01 Mar, 2010

10 pages in Cancer - after diagnosis have RADIATION in the title

This list is automatically updated

Items found: 10

65+ VitaminDWiki pages have TRANSCRIPT in the title

This list is automatically updated

Items found: 66
Title Modified
Dr. Holick interview with transcript - May 2024 05 May, 2024
Prostate Cancer - interview of Dr. Holick by Baggerly - video and transcript Jan 2024 05 May, 2024
Vitamin D Danger - Women need 70 ng for optimal Estrogen - video and transcript Dec 2023 08 Jan, 2024
The ONE Supplement All Longevity Experts Are Taking (Magnesium) - video and transcript Dec 2023 03 Dec, 2023
Benefits of Omega-3s - video and transcript - Patrick - Nov 2023 29 Nov, 2023
The Dangers of Vitamin D Deficiency (and why you should supplement), Video and transcript, Patrick - Nov 2023 29 Nov, 2023
Should You Take A Vitamin D Supplement - Dr Holick transcript Oct 2022 28 Nov, 2023
End of Alzheimer's videos, transcripts and many studies 17 Nov, 2023
Vitamin D - Dr. McCullough videos and transcript Aug 2023 10 Nov, 2023
Number 1 Vitamin D Danger You Absolutely Must Know! - with transcript Nov 2023 04 Nov, 2023
COVID fought by Vitamin D - video review of literature with transcript - Dec 2021 29 Sep, 2023
Interview and transcript: Vitamin D protocol for Autoimmune diseases – Dr. Coimbra 2016 24 Sep, 2023
The ONLY Solution to Long COVID (Vitamin D) - video and transcript Sept 2023 12 Sep, 2023
Alzheimer’s Is Now Optional - Dr. Bredesen video and transcript Sept 2023 12 Sep, 2023
UK MP talked on vaccine harms, other MPs left – transcript Mar 17, 2023 24 Aug, 2023
Steroids treating ARDS was published before COVID, but was ignored – Transcript Aug 20, 2023 21 Aug, 2023
Periodontal Disease and Vitamin D - interview and transcript - GRH, Grant July 2023 02 Aug, 2023
The INSANE BENEFITS of Vitamin D and How To Get It SAFELY - video and transcript July 2023 28 Jul, 2023
Health can be greatly improved by weekly 50,000 IU of Vitamin D - video and transcript - March 2023 01 Apr, 2023
The Role of Vitamin D in Reducing Risk of Alzheimer’s and Dementia - transcript Dr. Grant March 2023 12 Mar, 2023
Vitamin D, now conclusive (for COVID) - Dr. Campbell Video and transcript - Feb 1, 2023 04 Feb, 2023
Mechanisms of Autoimmunity – video and transcript – Beltran Nov 2022 02 Jan, 2023
Vitamin D dosing varies with genes, PTH, Mg, Vit K, etc – video and transcript Sept 2022 29 Dec, 2022
The Real Story on Vitamin D: interview and transcript – Grant Dec 2022 10 Dec, 2022
Interview with transcript concerning UVA, UVB, and health – Grant Dec 2012 09 Dec, 2022
COVID US deaths: 116,000 fewer if everyone had been taking Vitamin D – Campbell transcript Nov 2022 21 Nov, 2022
Moving Vitamin D Research into Practice - Video and transcript - Baggerly - Oct 2021 12 Oct, 2022
COVID infection might prevent infection better than vaccinations - transcript and many studies 11 Oct, 2022
Debunking Misinformation About Vitamin D - Grant podcast and transcript - Sept 2022 21 Sep, 2022
Vitamin D and COVID - satirical comedy (with transcript) by Jimmy Dore - Aug 2022 08 Aug, 2022
4 X fewer visits to Dr. after getting high level of vitamin D (Interview with transcript) - Jan 3, 2022 17 Jul, 2022
Interview with transcript of Dr. Grant on Vitamin D and Cancer by Dr. Moss - June 2022 23 Jun, 2022
Boost Your Immune System, Fight Viruses - Medcram with transcript - Oct 29, 2021 22 Jun, 2022
Transcripts in VitaminDWiki 22 Jun, 2022
Vitamin D reduces autoimmune disease - Dr. Campbell video and transcript - May 2022 30 May, 2022
Wonders of Vitamin D - Renu Mahtani video and transcription - Feb 2022 12 Mar, 2022
VitaminDWiki interview and transcript - Jan 2022 01 Mar, 2022
Cluster Headaches treated by high-dose Vitamin D, etc. (interview and transcript) - Feb 2022 23 Feb, 2022
Vitamin D and COVID - Davies, Benskin (Dark Horse video with transcript) - Dec 27, 2021 29 Dec, 2021
PhD working at VAERS on problems with vacc system - Masterjohn interview and transcript- Dec 27, 2021 27 Dec, 2021
Dr. McCullough on COVID-19: vaccine problems, home treatment – video, slides, transcript – Oct and Dec 2021 22 Dec, 2021
Vitamin D and a Dr. in Israel - Campbell video and transcript - Dec 11, 2021 13 Dec, 2021
Omega-3 decreases heart disease and COVID: Harris and Patrick, video and transcript - Dec 2021 07 Dec, 2021
Vitamin D probably has a Role in Cancer, CVD, and COVID - video and transcript Dec 1, 2021 02 Dec, 2021
Discussion of COVID and 50 ng of Vitamin D (video and transcript)– Dr. Campbell Nov 17, 2021 19 Nov, 2021
End of Alzheimer's video and transcript - Oct 2021 09 Nov, 2021
Vitamin D and Health video with transcript - Dr. Grant Sept 2021 11 Sep, 2021
In-home testing of viral load, etc. Dr. Topol interview with transcript – Aug 11, 2021 14 Aug, 2021
Your Brain on Covid-19 Long-Haul, Dr. Galland video and transcript - Aug 1, 2021 07 Aug, 2021
COVID-19 doctors not allowed to use treatments that work - Dr McCullough Video and transcript May 2021 11 Jul, 2021
Problems with vaccine use during a pandemic - Dr. Bossche interview with transcript - April 22, 2021 28 May, 2021
Vitamin D fights many health symptoms, including COVID-19: Dr. Mahtani video and transcript - April 2021 23 Apr, 2021
Vitamin D, COVID - Campbell and Davis (Video with transcript) - Jan 18, 2021 21 Apr, 2021
Autoimmune and high-dose vitamin D (Dr. Coimbra) - Dr. Mahtani video and transcript - Nov 2020 11 Apr, 2021
The Health Benefits of Vitamin D and Solar UVB (video and transcript) - March 2021 27 Mar, 2021
COVID public health messages 1, 2, and 3 should be - vitamin d vitamin d, vitamin d (video and transcript) - Mar 5, 2021 16 Mar, 2021
Vitamin D Help Us Fight Infections - interview of Dr. Thakkar (transcript) Jan 20, 2021 24 Jan, 2021
COVID-19 Vitamin D: Overview by Dr. in Sri Lanka (Video and transcript) - Dec 8, 2020 26 Dec, 2020
COVID-19 Vitamin D: Overview of Evidence by Dr. Seheult (Video and transcript) - Dec 10, 2020 14 Dec, 2020
Vitamin D Toxicity - an unmerited fear - Renu Mahtani video and transcription - Oct 2020 10 Oct, 2020
Dr. Coimbra on Coronavirus and Vitamin D (English transcript) - Jan 2020 31 Jan, 2020
Dr. Sears podcast with Carole Baggerly about Vitamin D (with transcript) - July 2019 05 Jul, 2019
Vitamin D, trauma, and blacks - Dr. Matthews interview with transcript - Jan 2019 15 May, 2019
Sleep, Vitamin D, B Vitamins, jaw, etc. Dr. Gominak transcript - 2016 31 Jan, 2019
History of Dr. Cannell and Vitamin D Council - Podcast with transcript - Dec 2014 05 Dec, 2014
Vitamin D and bone health - Univ of Maryland video and transcript May 2010 02 Jul, 2010

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