Table of contents
- Video interview
- Transcript (10 cents a minute, very fast, but some errors)
- When to never never use vaccines
- Have not had mass vaccinations for all age groups for Measles
- The rule is very simple, you only vaccinate vulnerable people
- Do not vaccinate with non-sterilizing vaccines during a pandemic
- Asymptomatic infection antibodies last only 6 to 8 weeks
- Innate immunity in children is more than sufficient
- What will happen if natural immunity keeps getting suppressed by booster
- It will explode, sometime soon
- Virus are getting natural selection, but humans are not
- Previous Bossche Videos on VitaminDWikl
- VitaminDWikI Titles with VACCIN*
0:00:00.3 Bigtree: Hello, Geart. First of all, I wanted thank you for taking the time today to really get into the details of your theories and issues with this vaccination program with this pandemic and the SARS Coronavirus. So thank you for taking the time. You're very available, thanks for heavy meeting and for our audience that's watching. And as you know, you are in Brussels, Belgium. I am in Austin, Texas, but through the magic of film making, we're sort of sitting in the same room virtually, because I wanted to put out a video that really feels more intimate because we're gonna get very intimate on this conversation, so to begin with, I have done several shows now, on the different interviews you have done over the last almost half a year, last several months, you put out a video very early on from your own social media page, Warning the WHO, that there was a real problem with the approach towards the SARS. Coronavirus, restart COV-2.
0:01:06.7 Bossche: Neocortex at with... My name is his fundings. My background is Veterinary Medicine, I'm a certified expert in Microbiology and Infectious Diseases, I have a PhD in virology, and I have a long-standing career in human facing... I'm urging you to immediately open the scientific debates on how human interventions in the covid 19 pandemic are currently driving viral immune escape. I'm urging you to invite me for a scientific hearing open to the public and to scientists all over the world on this very topic, ignoring or denying the impact of stringent infection prevention measures combined with mass vaccination using prophylactic vaccines. Is a colossal blunder. Please do listen to my cry of distress, and it's first and foremost, deliberate on a scientifically justified strategy to mitigate the tsunami of mobility and vitality that is not threatening us, And that's meanwhile devises a strategy to eradicate the steadily emerging highly infectious variance on behalf of humanity. I sincerely, thank you for considering my call to begin with this time, I want to start out with sort of your background, what
0:03:12.4 Bigtree: Is it specifically about your experiences that is giving you a different perspective that we're hearing from other world-renowned?
0:03:22.5 Bossche: I think it has, in fact, more to do with what I decided back 10 years ago, 10 or 12 years ago, where I decided I would take a completely different approach to sign, but it started all with my intention that I would start all of a sudden to look at the science, not as an objective in its own right, but as a tool to solve problems, because I was really, very much bothered having worked in both academia and in industry, I started thinking more and more about these two different worlds that both start with P the worth of the publications, that's what counts in academia and the world of products, that's what counts, and industry and in between, everybody talks about translational medicine, but it's very, very rare in fact that we find solutions that we use the signs to really solve problems and of course, my background is veterinary medicine, that's very broad as very diversified, and I had the chance during my career to touch up on several different fields, I specialized in virology in vainly, I learnt my vaccine, in fact, in industry. That's also the place where I learned immunology. I was teaching zoos is so we infectious diseases that can be transferred from animals to humans at the university.
0:05:02.7 Bossche: I have a long-standing interest in Evolutionary Biology, and all this has to do with interactions between the pathogen and the host, so the host immune system and understanding these interactions is very, very important, and then it was also very important is to understand the evolutionary capacity that a pathogen has, when it is put in the wide spread in no impression, that is something you don't have in clinical studies, for example, this is the population effect, and so the simply is rate that you have to be able to draw from all these several different fields I was so fed up that we put in many products in the pipeline in industry without even understanding how they interact, how they work exactly. And I was so fed in academia that all what counts is publication, we need to connect boat, because otherwise you are in a situation right now where we put our products without understanding what's going on, without understanding depending... You know my point, I'm 200% convinced that this is gonna lead to a cattaro Phy... To a disaster.
0:06:21.3 Bigtree: You worked for... Gave on the Ebola vaccine program. You've worked with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Now, obviously, you didn't start out by deciding to put your career in jeopardy as a world-renowned vaccine maker, as a scientist, as a professor, you must have reached out to your peers at the W-H, who I know you've worked with before, at Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation at gave. How did you reach out? And what was the response?
0:06:54.9 Bossche: Well, their life reached out at least three times to, I would say all the global health authority is the number of public health authorities, CDC, NIH debilitated Foundation, who of course... And I got maybe one or two anonymous responses, maybe I say this in an earlier interview, and I'm not going to disclose his name, but it is certainly one, if not the most famous vaccines on this globe who told me gave you a right. These vaccines are basically just gonna great variance, but nobody is going to listen to you because you go against the means to reimagine imagine it is just... I have no verse for this, I've no worse for this...
0:07:49.8 Bigtree: Were you surprised when you got no response, is this the first time you've reached out with...
0:07:55.5 Bossche: It was surprised by it was the same, but it was a small scale, that was just a culture's invest Africa.
0:08:05.1 Bigtree: What was your job on the Ebola vaccine?
0:08:08.4 Bossche: I was coordinating the bulaga, and part of this was the vaccines, but not just the vaccines, was also about a number of measures that needed to be taken to control more abuses in collaboration, of course, with and UNICEF and CDC and strengthening health measures, et cetera. So it was a collaboration between all these international health authorities, but of course, since I came from the vaccine field, I was very much interested in the vaccines that would be deployed and that would be used.
0:08:56.8 Bigtree: And what was that issue when it came to evaluating the effectiveness of the vaccine and the safety of the vaccine.
0:09:03.7 Bossche: Basically, quick came down to the naive interpretation of those who conducted the study that the incubation time of Ebola was, well, either don't remember exactly 10 or 12 days and they're there for... They would not need to start the clinical observations before so many days after the vaccination, after having identified the index case, and then you have the contacts that were all vaccinated, the endpoint was vaccine efficacy after so many days after the vaccination. But the vaccine that was used was a live vector that everybody knows, and I come from the Ativan field as well, is very, very strong in inducing inflammatory recital guys, if you study the pathogenesis of Ebola, you will find out that people die of a cytokine of a huge inflammatory site to Kinston. So what do you think happens if people who are incubating this, because you identify in the case and then you were immediately vaccinating the contacts who potentially were already in the incubation phase and would have been the ideal controls, so these people are already incubating a disease that leads to inflammatory, so can store... And then you come with a vaccine that is well known to stimulate pro-inflammatory recital guys, so these people, those who were infected ever vaccinated, they simply didn't make it till day 10 before they started the observations.
0:10:51.1 Bigtree: So let me get this. Great. They basically said, We know the incubation to be, If you babe about 10 days, therefore, when we find the index case, the person we know that's infected, they went and vaccinated everybody that had come in contact with them tethering a ring around the index case, but they said, Let's not collect any data for the first 10 days because we know that if anything is gonna happen inside that 10 days, it shouldn't count, and what you're saying is you gave an inflammatory vaccine to people that were potentially incubating a highly inflammatory disease. That's what we know, they're hemorrhaging, all the issues, you are then creating a perfect storm, these two things coming together, where obviously if someone has already had a hemorrhagic disease of huge side of climb and was also driven by the vaccine, those people are gonna die. So did you ask to see any data of those that obviously the potentially does happen that weren't making it into the evaluation of the safety and efficacy of this product, did you reach out to the who to say, Can I see the data before the 10 days submission was very, very simple.
0:12:06.5 Bigtree: We just wanted to have the case-fatality rates of the whole period as of day zero from vaccination compared in the vaccines, first is the placebo just from the very beginning, and just compare the case fatality rates, so what is the case fatality rate in the vaccines versus the placebo.
0:12:31.4 Bossche: Right from start, I was working with Gary and asked that question to which we never got an answer because it was confidential, and then I remember I was on vacation and my boss sent me this paper in the Lancet, and which revealed that he was 100% efficacy, I immediately knew that there was something wrong, but of course this was... So to say small scale was only vis Africa, but just to tell you that this is not a first time that I'm taking a deep dive in such things because I cannot stand it, that first of all, the signs is violated and that people who cannot can land how can layman understand the science is very, very complex. Right? For me, it's not even about freedom or about conspiracy areas or even about side effects... Okay, the site, its are important, but this is about the global health drama that affects every single individual.
0:13:38.4 Bigtree: I ask you a question that I'm not sure I've seen you answer, but you've done a lot of different interviews, you explain to me in your understanding what would have happened had we basically really just done nothing, no one ever screamed as a deadly brand new pathogen sweeping the planet no vaccine product is raised on the market, what would have happened if we just sort of let things go naturally, well.
0:14:09.9 Bossche: There'll be which have had a pandemic, a natural pandemic and an aeroplane mic that would have primarily or almost exclusively affected... I call them vulnerable people, you know these people, these are typically elderly people, Paul, who have an immunogenic-ENT immune system and an aging immune system, or people with underlying diseases or people who are otherwise immune suppressed, the only way to calm down upon is to cut a transmission, and that is only possible through her immunity, so we would have had a couple of waves, some people indeed would have died depending on what would have been the possibilities for treatment of these elderly people and people who are immune suppressed. And then, of course, you have the young people, typically, I'm saying This is not a childhood disease, who have a very strong innate in unity and basically are not affected the goal, they at most develop asymptomatic infection, asymptomatic infection. And then, of course, you have in-between people who would not have sufficient innate immunity to be protected against the disease, those people would have gotten the disease would then recover and would then have built a long left acquired immunity. So that is typically how pandemics occur, and within one year, Divas would not have been eradicated, but it would have been under control, under control, you to her immunity to a large extent due to the innate immunity that all youngsters in people in hotel half.
0:16:01.1 Bigtree: Okay, now I hear two terms that I think that many of us have been interchanging perhaps inappropriately, I hear you saying naturally acquired immunity and innate immunity, and I think many of us are confused that there's a difference between the two. So first of all, is there a difference between an immunity and natural acquired immunity?
0:16:25.7 Bossche: Yes, yes, and what we call innate in unity very often, and I'm very often talking about innate antibodies in contrast to the naturally acquired antibodies, the innate antibodies, these are pre-existing antibodies, antibodies that are already, so to say, Pre-Prime that you have at birth already, not as a result of antigen experience, a new bond, all of a sudden gets confronted with a number of pathogens... Yeah, or the new board cannot have all this antibody it because has never seen these pathogens, so that this is providing them with a good star, the innate antibodies were found in every vertebrate species also to tell you how important they are from an evolutionary viewpoint, that you find a menagerie species. So this is something that we have been completely neglecting, and these are basically the antibodies that protect all these young children and people in good health from a disease that is there for... That is there for not the childhood disease sarcoidosis that generate those innate antibodies, we call them B1 cells, it is a particular type of B cells, which is different from the B cells that generate the naturally acquired antibodies, the naturally acquired antibodies or antigen-specific...
0:18:04.1 Bossche: First off, they do have... They do have a high affinity for that particular antigen and they are low lift and they are typically acquired when we talk, for example, but Saran other infectious diseases, they are typically acquired once you have gotten the disease and you recover from the disease, and they have high longevity, so they are almost... And even if they disappear, they generate immunological memory, and because they generate immunological memory, they can be recalled very, very rapidly, so that is also some misunderstanding, many people are worried because their antibodies have disappeared in their blood, they should know that as soon as their body sees the antigen again or is re-exposed to the virus that we in no time, because there are memory cells, these memory cells will again start to produce these naturally acquired antibodies that then will protect them.
0:19:07.1 Bigtree: So just prior to explaining the difference between the innate immunity and the naturally acquired immunity, you were talking about in a natural infection situation when we didn't have a vaccine, had we just let this thing on its course, I want just to summarize now, make sure I understand this correctly, that you would have had those people that would get the infection, usually the elderly that have comorbidities, they have other health issues that are bringing down their immune system, their ability to really fight properly, they're gonna be at a high risk situation. Some of them will potentially die because they just won't handle the virus, well, then you have this other group, middle-aged people, they can be different ages, but also that also represents a different immune system, strength and ability, now they're going to get the infection becomes symptomatic and in that process, their body will create these antibodies, the nationally acquired antibodies that have long-term memory, and that's really the immune, that's the only immunity we all really have ever talked about for the most part. That's what we understand. My body sees this virus or a bacteria, it creates antibodies that are suppose if I have a natural immune assistant last forever, if they're induced by vaccines, maybe not quite River, but for a long period of time is the goal of the vaccine, and then you reference the children, as though they have a little bit of a different system, they have an innate immune system, as I understand it, and when they come in contact with the virus, they may not actually ever get to that place where their body is making these naturally acquired antibodies because their innate immune antibodies are so strong and capable that they end up just attacking the virus very well and killing it before there's a need to go, and I'm guessing all of that talk of a symptomatic that we've heard about, those asymptomatic cases would have been those where their innate immune system reaction was so strong, they never went a symptomatic reaction, which would have driven more of the production of those naturally acquired memory antibodies that...
0:21:24.3 Bigtree: Am I getting that right? Yeah.
0:21:25.8 Bossche: And that is why we call it the First Line of immune definite in antibodies... What we are talking about, just like in the field of acquired the immunity as you just explained, you explained that you have naturally acquired anti-bodies and some people will know you also have the cellular immunity, like T-cells, for example, acquired immunity. Will you have exactly the same compartments in the innate immune estate is of course, more than all this, but you have, first of all, the antibodies, which we call the innate antibodies, and you have also the innate or the natural seller component, which are the cases, for example, the natural killer cells. So it's not like you have no other components in the system, but if we talk about the guys who are doing the job who are cleaning up stuff, either neutralizing dividers or killing fires, infected cells, we call about effectors and that effective could be antibodies or cells of course, that sialic sell also in cases can kill like T-cells can kill the Siemens till the ability to kill cytotoxic Italy killer cells. It's
0:22:44.1 Bigtree: Okay. And so one of the confusions has been happening is that not all antibodies and not all cells are sialic or cytotoxic, some just buying some just do other things, but they don't actually kill the virus and then sterilize it and get rid of it. Is that correct? Yeah.
0:23:05.6 Bossche: That is one thing. The other thing that is also important to understand, and I think it adds value to this discussion, is that if you have antibodies... And now I'm talking boats, whether these are naturally acquired antibodies or in IT antibodies, sometimes they are not strong enough to really do their job to neutralize, for example, the virus, but they can still buy into the virus by doing that, by doing that, they can facilitate the entry of that virus in antigen-presenting cells that then cut the virus in bits and pieces, so that different pieces it can be properly presented to the T-cells, for example, or today in case sand, that is how each of these compartments, the innate and the acquired, do have an anti-body part, but also a cellar part that bots can either neutralize free-floating virus or virus that is inside to sell, that is what the killer cells do to kill her cells day kill virus infect itself. Right.
0:24:26.3 Bigtree: I see, I see. You're saying, so you have viruses, they're just floating between the cells still trying to get to the call, and many of the viruses that are already in the cells, those need different functions to neutralize. That makes perfect sense.
0:24:39.6 Bossche: And that is the difference between prevention of infection and prevention of disease, once the virus is in the cell, I mean, it's already destroying the cell, right. That is what predisposes you to disease, so if you then have killer cells that can kill those virus infect it sells, they will make sure you recover from the disease, whereas if you have functional antibodies that can readily neutralize the virus when it comes in, you can prevent infection of the cell in the first place, and you're not gonna get to disease.
0:25:16.7 Bigtree: So now we've talked about the national immune system in a natural world with no vaccines involved, what would have happened, you predict essentially, somewhere around a year and we would have seen a real just decline into stasis, not necessarily having eradicated the virus from the planet, but have found a balance with it, where we have enough immunity and enough people that keep it in check, our immune systems that it really can turn it... Stop in a pandemic. What would have been a one you're clear were past one year, we are still having issues with this virus that we hear about variance and mutations and these things, what was it about the vaccine that he appears have elongated maybe, or how does the vaccine change that experience or that outcome?
0:26:06.0 Bossche: Well, as I mentioned right from the beginning, and I'm just going to repeat is because this is literally what I said at the very, very beginning. And what will lead to the explanation to your question, never, ever, never, ever use vaccines that do not in-use sterilizing immunity. So to your point that cannot prevent infection, never ever use this type of vaccines to do mass vaccination, mass vaccination in the midst of a pandemic, if you get infected normally are not talking about a pandemic, you get infected to reveal load, of course, due to the infection right, and then almost after you have transmitted virus, very often, it's like this, the antibody start to bound, so dentist peak is reached after the bulk of the Via file replication has already taken place. So that means these antibodies that you generate can no lower put this virus and the pressure, it's already gone almost by the time this antibody mount, if you are now vaccinating people during a pandemic, that means that the antibodies are mounting while they can be confronted with a virus, then you start to put immune pressure on the virus, so these combinations of doing massively putting...
0:27:48.3 Bossche: Massively, having a population that massively, because you do mass vaccination, put pressure on the virus, combined with vaccination programs that are conducted in the midst of a pandemic, this can only lead to natural selection of the fittest, and because many people are in a similar situation, this will be this variant that then can overcome the pressure, will of course be enriched in the population and it will ultimately the dominant R, and you can see many studies have been on Air year from Canada, we are the introduced mass vaccination. And in August, they had 50% of the Delta variant circulating. One month later, they had 100% was Delta. So we have never, ever been saying, Does this more infections variance were generated by the vaccines or by mass vaccination... No, they were already circulating. They existed already, but what mass vaccination has done, it has within a short time frame generated an excellent breathing ground for this more infectious variance so that no, the propagation has exploded as a result of the mass vaccination.
0:29:10.7 Bigtree: I have an analogy for this, I've been thinking about a lot. I wanna run it by you. Let's say in terms of of the vaccine, like this idea of, it's not that it's mutating, it's not like it's like growing arms and legs and things like that, is that you're just selecting a variant that's already there, but it wasn't the popular one, it wasn't the dominant variant, the dominant was the more mild form of the illness, so in my analogy, imagine you're a scuba diver and you're going swimming and you're swimming in the ocean, and there's killer whales in the ocean, now, the killer whales we know rarely attack human beings, but on an auto rare occasion, they've been known to be hungry and decided to attack a human being, there's also sharks in the ocean, sharks we know love to attack human beings and do it all the time, there are much more dangerous to human beings, but killer whales out to put sharks and the situation with killer whales, they can eat a shark, so you don't usually find sharks and killer whales in the same water, but if the swimmer, the scuba diver decides I'm afraid of the killer whales and that rare risk that I could be killed by them, so the swimmer kills the killer wheels, Wipes them out.
0:30:22.8 Bigtree: What you do is you take away that environment where they're out competing, the sharks, now the sharks come in because there's no killer whales around, and now the sharks become dangerous to the scuba diver, much, much more dangerous, they're the more dangerous variant. Now, all we have left is shark, and now all of us are in danger getting to the water, is that sort of...
0:30:44.8 Bossche: Yeah, the analogy would even be better if one would say the scuba diver is using a weapon that can only kill the... Kills the ness, doesn't work for the Sharks, it only works for the killer will... So he is firing with the weapon under water, but that weapon doesn't work for the Sharks, it only works for the killers, and that weapon is the immune system, of course, the shortest... Resist the killers can not resist it. And so your concern is that the more we've vaccinate, the more we're wiping out a virus, our bodies can really handle fairly easily, except for a small few, and now selecting for a much more dangerous part and this process keeps going.
0:31:38.1 Bigtree: Now, I wanna play a clip by a guy named Z-Dog does an internet talk show, and he interviewed a very famous doctor here, Dr. Paul O, and I guess he's a biologist, he's invented... Vaccines were made vaccines. I'm not sure if you've ever come in contact with Paul upsets, very well known because heroes, one of the sites of the most famous vaccine together with San Plotkin and vault Orenstein, you can know Him. So he's a big deal. So this would be an equal peer, he's asked about your theory on pressuring the virus and making it deadly, and this whole thing that you've been very worried about, this is what he had to say in this interview.
0:32:32.0 Bossche: There's a guy get Vanden Basha. Have you heard about this guy? Yeah, so apparently a virologist in Europe, as his premise, and you can maybe explain it better than me, is that, Oh, by vaccinating during a pandemic, we're putting pressure on the virus to... Vaccine is Cape variants and that we've primed our immune system, therefore follow-up vaccines won't be very effective. Something along those lines. To paraphrase, I'm paraphrasing that right hand, what do you think about this? 'cause it has a grip on the public, this idea
0:33:08.5 Bigtree: With what evidence you have, for example, in... You have meals for exact... We've had a mess vaccine since the early 1960s, Mees is like like this Caray single strand in rnas measles, like this fire says bottomless, despite 60 years of measles vaccine, we have not seen strange generated that resist immunity from vaccination... Flu is different, flu mutates on a daily basis, that virus is a moving target, this is also mutates, but much slower than, say, influence as we'll see, it's like the notion that you know you're creating... You've created a population get for natural factor Austin, they're just likely to have several years of protection, that's a good thing, and although the firms may mutate to the point that it escapes recognition by current immunity from vaccination organization, then you come up with a second generation me that's water. I don't think that's gonna happen. Actually, I think that the viruses, there's probably been already about 12000 mutations on this virus already, and I think you may get to the point if they're resisting all immunity or a meaning that you're it as if you never got back, so you never gotten actually faced... I think that's probably a lethal mutation.
0:34:23.5 Bossche: Yeah, so in other words, you're kind of running the runway out on the viruses, ability to change itself with parts not level to... That's right. Leather us. Right, and so within that parameter, then I think, again, it's another compelling reason to just go and get vaccinated now.
0:34:41.5 Bigtree: So he says, you're wrong. As we just heard said that just like measles, this is a single-strand virus, that we will achieve immunity the same way that we do with measles, he says The Flu obviously does have more like mutates faster every day, he said, But coronavirus, not as fast. I find it sort of ironic, but the end, he says it's already mutated 12000 times there is 12000 Barrens on at the least to a lay person, that sounds like a lot, but I don't know. But what about it? In the end, he says, You're gonna have immunity for several years, and should there be another variant, all we'll have to do is make a new vaccine to deal with that variant, and we're good to go. Why, that seems to be the thinking of almost every scientist working for governments around the world, why do you... Where do you differ with that perspective?
0:35:41.6 Bossche: Well, the conditions, remember the sentence that I just repeated, which was really my concern, and which was already in my first... First call that I made. Conditions are not fulfilled. Have you ever seen mass vaccination across all age groups against measles? No, not that now, because what I think about reactance, we vaccinate children at measles, and why do we do this? Because measles is a childhood disease, and basically remember, remember about the innate antibodies, if the infectious pressure, you probably know that measles is very, very infectious is amongst one of the infections viruses, we know. So it breaks immediately through the innate immunity, so if you don't come with a vaccine, you cannot stop this thing the second, but I also say it is never, ever vaccinate with vaccines that do not block transmission during a pandemic of a highly mutable virus. I mean, measles is not a highly mutable virus, can be an R and a virus, but it's not a highly mutable vibes influenza. And I bet you, if you will do exactly the same with influenza, so conditions need to be fulfilled, you have a pandemic, you start to do mass mass vaccination with vaccines that cannot block transmission, you will end up with exactly the same situation, so people are comparing things that are not just comfortable.
0:37:33.3 Bossche: I hear people saying all the time, why don't we have this with flu, etcetera, etcetera, we have herd immunity with flu, and so from time to time, immunity weakens, and then you have a breakthrough, but guess what, Man, as soon as the flu starts to spread, it encounters either young people who have very good innate immunity, who will block the virus and who believe in eliminate virus, or you have people who are previously being ill and have mounted long left antibodies against the fluid or even that even have broad spectrum very often. So this is a completely different situation. We have never been doing mass vaccination of measles in the cross... All each group.
0:38:20.2 Bigtree: Okay, you're saying that essentially measles, we never... And this is shocking, I think, to a lot of people, 'cause we don't really think about this, and I've watched you speak so many times that is now sinking in that measles, as an example, had already gone through a very big spike, it was very deadly early on, right, and it was already of our natural immune systems had brought it down, the death rate was way, way down by I think, 1960 in America, 10 and 500000 people in America died of the measles every year, so very, very low death rate. I think that if the infected, it was something like one in 10000, if I'm right, or something like that, of people that caught it now, then we started the vaccine program, we started the vaccine after really, all the elderly, all of our parents, all of the... Even the US had already had immunity, so all you needed to do was to vaccinate the new entries, the children before they got it, and they said, Look, it works, we have heard immunity, but they were really relying on that naturally acquired her immunity that was being cared by the entire planet.
0:39:32.0 Bigtree: Prior to vaccination? Correct. Okay, exactly.
0:39:34.7 Bossche: So you're facing in such a situation, the rule is very simple, you only vaccinate to vulnerable people, so in some cases, the viral people or the children, in other cases like Sacco, the filter of bar people are rather the elderly, so North... Answer to your question is, I do not rule out then if in case we would have done this as you were just explaining, with measles, really a vaccination across all age groups, with measles came in as a new virus, that we might have seen the same problem occurring. You understand what I explain? I...
0:40:11.8 Bigtree: Yes, I understand that. Now, my last question on the muses comparison by Paul of it. You said that this vaccine we're using for stars CO2 is only prophylactic, it really only protects the person from severe disease, it does not neutralize the virus. Does the muses vaccine neutralized measles, or is it similar in that it only reduces symptoms...
0:40:36.1 Bossche: Well, it will, the misusing... Because this is of course, the other difference we have not even been talking about is people talk about vaccines as if they are all based on the same principle, we need to distinguish between live vaccines and subunit are killed or whatever, but live vaccines. That is of course very, very important. Because what will happen with a live vaccine is that you will have also strong stimulation of your innate IUI that can induce... Indeed, sterilizing sterilizing immunity, right. So in Utica, indeed be ceiling, but that does not mean that you will eradicate measles, for example, same we had the same with polio. Remember, polio was a live attenuated vaccine. Did we eradicate polio? We didn't... We can close it, but we didn't, because you can still have transmission by asymptomatic people, for example, so you will control it much more easily. Why... Why will you control it much more easily with a live vaccine because you will have a lot of innate immune stimulation that sterilize... We were just talking about innate immunity, how effective it is, because in contrast right now with the vaccine, with the antibodies that can not control the infection in the transmission, innate immunity can...
0:42:10.0 Bossche: That is why this in an immunity is so super efficient, so if you now have a virus, a livius that can do this, it will be much more efficient
0:42:19.7 Bigtree: As in Paul opens comparison, hirth are really apples and oranges, you... What we believe to be a highly mutable disease in the Starkville menial disease, in measles, at least we believe we won't know because we're looking at two totally different environments, one very pressure when not, but that's the general assumption, and the vaccine is different... Active vaccine that induces a stronger innate immune response, which really does neutralized this virus, maybe not eliminate completely, but it does a much better job than the vaccine that we're talking about now for cars Cove. To correct. And so those two things, and
0:43:05.2 Bossche: I know three things, and we didn't do a mass vaccination imagination or the measles is a very important one because that is where the immune pressure comes from.
0:43:14.8 Bigtree: Okay, now the last part of this though, is Paul OPI, it doesn't... If you're right, geared, it doesn't matter, because even if we have selected for a variant and at some point that very ends up becoming the dominant strain, at that point, we'll just make a new vaccine that handles that Marriott and end of the problem... Why is that an issue? Because that seems to be what the FDA and everybody are sort of counting on, you're seeing studies, they're talking about wellness, delta is getting problematic, we may need a new vaccine in the future, why are you worried that... That's not gonna happen. That's clearly what's gonna happen. So Why won't that save us?
0:43:53.2 Bossche: Well, what pulpit is alluding to is the influencer strategy, and again, I'm always repeating my only sentence, My only call do not vaccinate with non-sterilizing vaccines during a pandemic, I'm always giving the example, you are loading your gun while you are already on the battlefield, while you get already attacked, right? If you do this before you get a taco is no problem that... What I was saying normally, when you get infected, a natural infection, virus Toms interest transmission and it's on the afterwards that the antibody speak. So the antibodies cannot really put this virus and depression, but if you now vaccinate and they... You vaccinate his people, you don't give them quarantine, they have full-fledged antibodies, you don't tell them Stay at home for at least six weeks because you need your first shot, you need your second shot, and it's all gonna take at least six weeks still, you have... For Sandy bodies, these people go out and the next day or the next week, they can get a tech parties, why... First of all, it's a pandemic, second, we are now dealing with a new pandemic, this is a pandemic of a highly infectious variance, this is a pandemic of the Delta, Marino.
0:45:20.9 Bossche: It's a completely difference. Again, again, the conditions are not fulfilled, comparing apples with oranges or whatever.
0:45:31.8 Bigtree: I have another a minute, just 'cause I try to help my audience, and I think simply... But when you're talking about the anybody's needing that time to develop, I imagine a war for in the middle of a war, the best way to handle a war as you send your cadets through basic training, they get boot camp, they get fully trained, they get all their gun training, they're working out, and then they're strong soldiers, so that the moment that we send them off to attack, they're the best capability of winning that war, but in the middle of the war, the war, we decided, You know what, we don't have time or for whatever reason we just skip or in the middle of boot camp, we just send these children in that haven't worked out, they barely know how to work their gun, now they're in the middle of the fight, they're coming to the enemy, that enemy is just gonna overrun them, and come flowing through and re-havoc and when that war is that sort of... You know, when you talk to Cory when it comes to fighting pathogens by the immune system, the always compared it to war situations or solar, it's an analogy that works to pretty, very...
0:46:36.5 Bigtree: You'd like to see a stop this mass vaccination campaign because it's caused depression you're talking about, and Paul of its approach with mass vaccination is gonna create a variant that each time we then Baxter gonna create a more and more infections and potentially create a problem is the fear that one day there'll be a pathogen that we just can't... There's no vaccine can stop it, is that basically the concern...
0:47:01.0 Bossche: And when they read peer review journals from molecular molecular epidemiologist, I mean, they are simply predicting this, and I cannot understand, it's like I'm telling these things, but if you don't mind, I can simply... Citations, peer-review journal by... This is like Harvard Medical School, the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, MIT, etcetera. And there are statements like, And this is published early this year, when neutralizing antibodies are broadly present in the population broadly, president, a population is... When you do, for example, Maven population level selection for antibody evading, infection competent viral mutants may result in rapid researches of Saco infections. So that is one thing that we see right now. The research of the infections, I mean, this is a very strange situation where we all of a sudden see in all these countries where we have this mass vaccination, we see an increase in infectivity, the two-year point to the resistance, so... What the tapes, as well as evidence from multiple experimental studies suggest that specific single mutants may be able to evade spike targeting vaccine immunity in many individuals and rapidly lead to the spread of vaccine-resistant covid to one variant that can escape covalent.
0:48:46.0 Bossche: Plasma neutralization is already in South Africa, this was beginning of these years, and could experience create positive selection pressure once vaccines are deployed widely, finally, the overall size of the pandemic in terms of number of active infections will play a significant role in whether the virus can be brought under control with vaccines, the speed at which neutralizing antibody resistance develops in the population increases substantially as the number of infected individuals increases, suggesting that complementary strategies to prevent save transmission, for example, anti-varro Phil axis and that do not exert a specific selection pressure on the virus or key to reducing the risk of immune escape in this context, vaccines that do not provide sterilizing immunity and therefore continue to permit transition will lead to the build-up of large standing populations of virus, greatly increasing the risk of an un-escape. And I mean, there are other publications, I don't want to take too much of your time, where it is very, very clear... I'm not the only one, I'm probably the only one who dies to speak out, but I mean this world class molecular epidemiologists or very, very well aware and have been warning at the beginning of this year, I must read this one, that the emergent and the rapid rise in prevalence, and this was of the Alpha-Beta Gamma, has prompted renewed concerns about the evolutionary capacity of Saco to adapt to boat, the rising population immunity and public health intervention such as vaccines and social distancing, as a consequence, the epidemiological and immunological properties will likely complicate the control of covid 19.
0:51:00.4 Bossche: So, I mean, this is not new, people know, people have seen already that before we even start a demand vaccination, the virus was already under remain dispersion, most likely because of high infectious pressure in areas that were very densely populated, like in South Africa, the Mandela Bay or in Brazil, in the Favelas, etcetera. And because of that, it was a high local uprising, but this pressure was directed against the spike protein, and it has already... So they have shown that the mani mutations in the protein were really driven by immune selection pressure exerted by population. Now, guess what? We are now coming with a vaccine, the target of which is the spy protein, and the spy protein is the target of the infectious-ness, so now if I'm saying I'm exerting in UN-pressure on top of the pressure that got existed already before the mass vaccination. I'm exerting pressure on the fiction-ness of virus, because that is what is is doing, making virus infections. So then, if that is the case, I would expect an explosion of board infectious virus, and that is exactly what you've seen.
0:52:28.3 Bigtree: Why does it fall off it... If you say Everyone knows this, if you're an immunology, you should know this, why doesn't Paul of it know this?
0:52:35.3 Bossche: I don't know, sometimes sometimes they'll... This is my personal opinion, I'm not saying that this is the case. Sometimes I'm under the impression that the establishment, you have always an establishment, you have this in vacuole and immunology and all branches in all disciplines, that the establishment things... Well, we have made it. I've made my reputation, my name, my career, and just based on my knowledge, I'm gonna draw conclusions. If you are tackling a very complex problem like a pandemic, and you intervene with effects of prevention and with vaccines, and you think you can afford yourself to leave stones and turn, I mean, then for sure, this is a recipe to make big, big mistakes, so we don't like, my respect for these people and what they have been doing, but even world-renowned professors are making right now big, big mistakes because they are not doing their homework, or because they cannot draw from all these different fields and immunology and virology and faxing and evolutionary biology etcetera, and if you don't do this, if there is one field that is missing because you think you're a virologist and not an immunology, and you think I can explain this from the viewpoint of virology, then you have no right to speak.
0:54:05.1 Bossche: You have to familiarize yourself with those disciplines, if you want to say your word in the analysis of the pandemic, and certainly certainly how to tackle it.
0:54:17.3 Bigtree: Okay, I wanna get into where I was setting this up is you're in two camps, it was clear, you've laid out a very clear issue with mass vaccination and the pressure of it, but there are people on that watch my show that reach out and say... He's saying That natural immunity is flawed too, that there's a failure in natural immunity because that the innate immune system has these sort of temporary or short-lived antibodies that just like the vaccine induces specific antibodies that get in the way of the immune system. Spite, I've heard you say that there are people who have already come in contact with the virus, have had their innate immune response that are getting re-infected, you're saying that's happening with the kids now that we're seeing... Even though, and I wanna say this, even though on my show, I'm presenting all sorts of science coming out of Israel that shows that there's a long-lived robust protection from National immunity. It is far better than the vaccinated immunity. Every study is showing us that studies out of Israel show that the... I think the re-infection rate is less than 1%, yet you've been pretty vocal about your concern about re-infection, so what are you saying is different than what we're seeing in these days in Israel, saying that it's less than 1%...
0:55:51.9 Bigtree: Virtually virtually non-existent. This re-infection problem, or the same drive, Explain it to me
0:55:58.8 Bossche: If that would have been the understanding of your audience, I absolutely need to correct this, I'm certainly not at all against natal acquired immunity, but there is two things. First of all, the reason why now many people get re-infected, so to say, is because after a symptomatic infection, you develop short live antibodies. Remember, this was... Do you remember the story in Manaus in Brazil, where they got a huge wave at the beginning of the pandemic, and then they started measuring antibodies, and they said We have her immunity, almost everyone was positive. Guess what? A few months are after they had the second huge wave, but the problem is that many people must have developed simply asymptomatic infection, of course, their antibodies will last for about six to eight weeks, the does who had really gotten the disease and acquired the long antigen specifically long left antigen-specific antibodies, they were... Of course, protected.
0:57:11.9 Bigtree: I wanna be a teen. You're really differentiating between a symptomatic infection and a symptomatic infection, once we're into a symptomatic infection, that cues us that you've now getting that B-cell, you created antibody memory antibodies that will remember that experience and fight the virus should you come in contact in the future that so once we're symptomatic, we're having a much stronger reaction and we develop long-lived antibodies that have memory, whereas you're saying if you're asymptomatic, you're a naive immune system, do such a good job that you have these antibodies that don't have memory and their short-lived... They only last for six to eight weeks to do their job, and then they're out of there and they're gone, so what your differentiating between is an a symptomatic and asymptomatic infection. Very different. And how are pedal with its asymptomatic infection?
0:58:06.5 Bossche: You only see the antigen a few days, previous is rapidly eliminated, so your immune system is not really primed, it has seen it, there is some activation, they will not be long asking. No memory, etcetera, etcetera. So I must seen it, but then it was very rapidly...
0:58:25.0 Bigtree: Now, it's interesting when I was looking at this gear because at first, when I heard you say this several times, it seemed like a flaw in the immune system that it makes these short-lived antibodies, but it occurred to me whether or not you believe in God or perhaps just in evolution, you can come to the same realization that it appears to me that there's something brilliant about this innate immune system, that it is so short-lived because maybe... Maybe I'm just gonna run this by, this is just me thinking it through, perhaps with something like ness where you just in response is never strong enough, it's always gonna roll over into that more robust, long-lived immunity because... Not highly mutable, and that makes sense, that if we wanna survive, I only need to catch that once, and so I wanna have a specific response to one of... A specific antibody is built that will always recognize measles 'cause it's not gonna change that much, and that will ask you my whole life, but when it comes to upper respiratory illnesses that we've had a real difficulty making vaccines for the major reason is they are mutable, they change a lot.
0:59:35.0 Bigtree: And so, whereas you would want long-term immunity for a virus that's stable, I'm gonna stay the same, you don't want a long-term immunity for a virus that's changing all the time and producing variance because at some point it's not gonna recognize it. And now having those specific antibodies is gonna be a problem for you, 'cause you won't recognize the virus coming in and then are really vulnerable, so our immune system has this brilliant function where in viruses, especially upper respiratory, that mutate very quickly, it only wants a quick reaction grabs on, we have a killer cells hit it, are innate immune antibodies hit it, and then there's these to mop it up, these short-lived antibodies, and it's great because they clear out of the way and they're gone, and it's like the whole thing never happened, and so in many ways, that innate response is the best response, and so my question would be, now, as we look at the environment that we're seeing for the natural immunity versus innate amenity versus vaccinated immunity, we understand, I think all the problems with vaccination immunity... It doesn't stop the infection, it doesn't stop the transmission, it doesn't neutralize the virus, and therefore just creates pressure and allowing it to be a breeding ground, and so in some circumstances, as this vaccines pressuring and we've created this unnatural world, we really want as many people to not have come in contact with this.
1:01:01.4 Bigtree: Right, or to at least been asymptomatic, so they still have this innate immunity in place and not naturally acquired, are we in a situation where there may be a preference, just as a scientist looking at this bigger picture, that the innate immunity may be the more important immunity right now, compared to the naturally acquired immunity for these reasons...
1:01:25.7 Bossche: Yeah, we'll certainly... Or certainly for this type of disease, because as I was saying, it's not a childhood disease, and typically the innate immunity is more than sufficient, in fact, the acquired immunity, as you were saying, it's only very important if you have a situation where the innate immunity is not really sufficient. I wanted to make a small correction to what you say, the factional antibodies, they can also, of course, and neutralize the problem is that the neutralizing capacity is of course not so good because the vaccine that we are using is pretty different, the protein from the protein in the circulating in the circulating strain, the big advantage of the natural infection, you get immediately the update, you get infected by the most relevant variant that is circulating, so you get immediately that update and secondarily, it primes in a much more efficient way so that the diversity of variants that it will recognize that your eure Pons Bill recognize is larger than the one that got in used by the vaccines, so that are the two major advantages... Right, okay. I don't want make things complicated, but it is somewhere a kind of innate response that is between the purely pre-existing that has no Beery is broadly protective and cross-protective, and the one that is the acquire that is very specific and has memory.
1:03:13.2 Bossche: You have something in between. And all this is documented, these are kind of like innate antibodies that have already some kind of maturation, not really memory, that are a little bit more narrow in what they recognize, and these people who keep in good shape, etcetera, they do have this kind of... Indeed train to rein in unity, and you will see, and I tell you, and everybody can write this down, the immunity will become of the unvaccinated will become better and better. Tanks to training, they're continuously confronted by devious, and so what you will see, and you can already see this in the graphs that are published by the Public Health England, in the vaccines, the efficacy or the number, the number of the effect of the disease by people remains more or is the same, but what you see is that in denominated, the number of infected people becomes lower and lower, and because the infection diminishes, because what I'm saying in a community, whether restraint or pre-existing is sterilizing immunity, so because it gets trained, you get less and less fewer... Fewer infections in the unvaccinated, if you get fewer, fewer infections, you get...
1:04:35.9 Bossche: Of course, if your disease cases and you see the number of disease, can you unvaccinated going down and what will happen is that... And that, of course, also applies to children, what you will see with the children is that even though we continue to mass vaccination, you will see that their trained immunity there in Attunity is going to be more and more better and better trained. So guess what, these experts who don't understand anything about the evolutionary dynamics of repin dais or saying, Yes, we have low cases disease cases for the kids, but we need to vaccinate them because look, we have a tremendous impact on transmission, of course. As these young people get the innate immunity more and more trains, this antibodies now can be less well out-competed by the short left antibodies, and you simply go to the publication of Public Health England, you can see on the left panel, the vaccines or the black columns yes, and the non-vaccinated or the grey columns. Great. Okay, the first three columns, it's under 39, you see an effect of the vaccine on infection, Belle vaccines, there are fewer vaccines infected than non-vaccinated, right.
1:06:11.8 Bossche: People under the H of the T or 40, even the vaccine, has a dramatic effect on the reduction of transmission, then I would say, Wait a minute, if I'm gonna wait for one month, then these people, their innate immunity must have gotten trained a lot better because the virus is circulating all the time, and then you look at the graph at the right panel, what happened? So now in the age group 30-39, it's already vaccinated that collect infected, and in the other group, 18-29, it's more always the same. There is a little still advantage of the vaccines and still in those who are very un-experienced in terms of antigen encounters and Matera of their innate immune system, so the youngest children there, there is still a major advantage of being vaccinated, but I tell you, if you're gonna look at this code, the age of 18, you will see in one or two months from now, that also there, it will dramatically decrease and it will maybe even be at the favor or at the advantage of the unvaccinated, because even those young children or young people will now get trained more and more and will be capable thanks to the rain innate immunity to have sterilizing immunity and eliminate the virus.
1:07:51.4 Bossche: If we are now going to vaccinate his people, what we are going to do is that we will take away this capacity of sterilizing immunities.
1:08:01.9 Bigtree: Then we live a population that nobody can... Sterilize.
1:08:05.6 Bossche: Yeah, we can completely forget about her immunity. Can you imagine what this means if you are now going to suppress this innate immunity on a permanent basis, because that is exactly what you will do if you immunize them, If you prime them, right. Secondly, they are a breeding ground for the most more effects, so this is just going to speed up, to speed up on the resistance and turn... When the resistance comes in, these people will have their innate anti-bodies completely suppressed and they've acquired antibodies through vaccination or completely worthless. Can you imagine what that means for individual health and for a population help, this is just going to be a major disaster and tell... Nobody can explain this, I'm explaining you what is happening there, and you know, nobody cares, nobody interpreted this that... This is just for me. This is unbelievable, unbelievable.
1:09:10.5 Bigtree: Well, there's a problem lived when we watched this FDA meeting, to me, you didn't have to be a rocket scientist revolt just say that just has very simplistic and perhaps stupid when I think this comment was the one that really went wild on social media, and I think really ends up being the grounds for why the FDA appears to have agreed to authorize the use of this vaccine and children take a look at this, we're never going to learn about how cayetano start giving it. That's just the way it goes. There it is, whatever you learn what the vaccine does to be giving it to all the kids, they'll...
1:09:49.1 Bossche: Let me put it that way, you can talk about many, many things you can talk about, of course, all the side effects, and that is important, I'm not saying that it's not important. And that is sort of a safety already, the fact that they are saying, Yeah, well, we use human beings and even children as experimental animals, basically to see the wanting that we do know and the safety impact, because he's talking about safety, the safety impact will be tremendous and will be of an order of magnitude that is not even comparable to the side effects we are talking about, is driving this virus into resistance, depriving the children from Boerne immunity and their vaginal protection and preventing in an irrevocable way, the population from ever generating her immunity. So what we are going to do is instead of the population exerting selection pressure on the virus, we are going to allow these virus to exert selection pressure on Nate unity of the host, so that means only people who will still have their innate immunity intact, have a chance, have a chance to survive.
1:11:20.1 Bigtree: What is the worst case scenario? If you... To gain this out, what type of damage numbers on a population level are we talking about... Because you've seen very stressed in the videos that I've seen, I can tell right now, you're very passionate about this, what is sort of your worst case scenario concern...
1:11:43.1 Bossche: I can talk about figures, but what is clear is that the order of magnitude will be something completely, completely unprecedented, because again, what I'm saying is, and this is the logic of the signs, what we will obtain if we do this, if we continue to mass vaccination, we continue to boost. We don't do anything about the infectious pressure, we immunize all the children, I mean, if that is not going to be a catastrophe, you can put me in jail. I'm very serious about it. Is there any expert who dare to say this, If I'm wrong with the vaccination of the children, you can put me in jail... Nobody, I do this because I'm convinced. I've done my homework, I've turned this thing upside down. From all sides, it is like pieces of a puzzle of a very complex special that can only match in one single way if it scientifically makes sense, and then you see all the data and the data go... Exactly. None of my predictions. Of course, I cannot say January or February or when. It is going to explode in Israel, and know it's going to explode. And know it's going to be very fast, I think before the end of the year even.
1:12:58.8 Bossche: But I don't know for sure, but I really... We are giving the virus and no opportunity to do a natural selection amongst the human race, those who have innate immunity versus those who have not not... Not left, because of what I explained. I know this is very strong, you know me in the meantime, I'm not in two sensation, I'm not in today, but it cannot be... It can not be that we vaccinate the children, it seems possible, that is our last hope. It's our Listowel
1:13:35.7 Bigtree: Dear. We have put a lot of time in here, and it has been very enlightening, and I really feel that I have a great understanding now of your concern, it seems like a very well-thought-out concern... You've backed it up with evidence. Which we've shown here today. And so to me, you appear genuine... The question will be, I suppose, I was geared. Right. Are his theory is correct? And I think we're in an unfortunate position where we're either... We're gonna have to choose a side, Hythe are gonna have to choose a pal of it, or are we gonna listen to Curbed and mash, and I would say under those circumstances that... It's an easy decision for me. There is no risk to our children, we already know in the FDA meetings, they're concerned about myocarditis and Peoria issues that we know are problems with the children, right there. There's a risk already, but I do think when you speak of it, that risk would Hall and its impact on our children and perhaps on our species, if what you're concerned about ends up coming to fruition because of, as you've described it, a colossal mistake in science that could lead to a team of morbidity and mortality, and so here, I wanna say that whether or not you've nailed every part of this, you've clearly thought about all of it, I will say that I don't see the risk in listening to you right now.
1:15:11.7 Bigtree: I see great risk in not listening because... Should you have that moment of, I told you so. When I hear the passion in your voice, I'm horrified at what this world looks like, the moment all that is left is your... I told you so.
1:15:34.4 Bossche: Yeah, and thank you, delegating me the opportunity to speak on the platform, and frankly speaking, my biggest anger is in the refusal for discussion in an open debate that is, I'm beyond angry because this is where we could have clarified in the mean time, it has gone... Process so far progressed that far that it seems to me like this is something we can completely forget about, a dialogue and open scientific dialogue. Even open to the public. I don't know what the courts will do because there you have case against Gates, and as I told you, if you have... You take a snapshot here and you take a snapshot, Derwin to win, and so my, your choice has been to do at least an effort to explain as good as we can, and with help of of some people who can make the message easier to understand, to reach out to the people themselves is because at the end of the day, they are the ones who are really concerned, very much concerned by this, it's... Their health is the health of their children, and they need to make decisions or sometimes covers to make decisions that they have no clue what the impact is going to be, not only at a short-term, but also at the Loma term.
1:17:01.6 Bossche: So to the extent that you can help us reach these people, I'm really, very, very grateful to you and your team. Thanks.
- Problems with vaccine use during a pandemic - Dr. Bossche interview with transcript - April 22, 2021
- Warning - mass vaccinations typically create mutations that are vaccine resistant - July 29, 2021
VACCINation, VACCINations, VACCINes, VACCINe, VACCINated, etc.
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